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Jan 21/22 winter storm Obs


RUNNAWAYICEBERG

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Well in the interest of accuracy it was much more than just qpf. The 2nd low itself was getting shoved seaward every six hours. Like I said the euro was off but didn't overdo it. This time it won handily and the ncep stuff did nothing but backpedal inside of 20 or 36 hours.

Not surprising because as will says it scores better. I think on this system it kind or regained some "inside of 48" dominance. Rgem too.

I understand that, but my point is that sometimes we see changes in the mid levels manifest themselves into the qpf output....which is why is silly to ignore it.

I understand you can't obssess over run-run fluctuations in the lowest scoring metric of model output, but when it becomes a clear trend, you don't ignore it.

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Enough said.

The lambasting of anyone who displays concern over QPF trends needs to end.

Some over do it, but its obvious that some are overreliant on the mid levels, too.

Happy meduim.

Here's my take

This "storm" was mostly about mid level 7H forcing . The whole damn band from me md to Phil to mt tolland to franklin last nite was from primarily this feature and the models were pretty damn solid w it

There was gonna be a bust one way other w sharp cut offs nw of this forcing and nobody can be expected to nail the cut off.

So in sne it was from a of Danbury to just S of 84 to holliston to boston . Was modeled pretty damn well but what forecaster is gonna put out a map w 1-5 from bos nw and 8-14 just s of bos w lolli's where oe and fronto combined

The qpf queen comments are usually from posters who dont wanna hear anything negative or over react and think every damn comment (which they cant determine the context is a panic)

I was concerned immediately in am yesterday (after looking at mon nite's 7h forcing / mid level lift cut sharply on gfs overnite last nite and i was called a panicker by most, when it was a model comment and accurate btw

And there was some noise between different models wrt mid level lift getting to 495 for a cpl few hr Bursts and for a time overnite last nite (till it was cut yesterday). Some storms people talk mid levels too much, this storm was dependent on more 7h forcing then any i can recall

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Here's my take

This "storm" was mostly about mid level 7H forcing . The whole damn band from me md to Phil to mt tolland to franklin last nite was from primarily this feature and the models were pretty damn solid w it

There was gonna be a bust one way other w sharp cut offs nw of this forcing and nobody can be expected to nail the cut off.

So in sne it was from a of Danbury to just S of 84 to holliston to boston . Was modeled pretty damn well but what forecaster is gonna put out a map w 1-5 from bos nw and 8-14 just s of bos w lolli's where oe and fronto combined

The qpf queen comments are usually from posters who dont wanna hear anything negative or over react and think every damn comment (which they cant determine the context is a panic)

I was concerned immediately in am yesterday when i saw mid level lift cut sharply on gfs overnite last nite and i was called a panicker by most, when it was a model comment

The gfs back pedaled every run for the last 3-4 finally coming around to realizing phase two was so far offshore it wouldn't help most. Well and it gave up on the mega unified storm.

Plymouth county getting crushed right now. I'm not in the best of it and I have heavy snow.

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The gfs back pedaled every run for the last 3-4 finally coming around to realizing phase two was so far offshore it wouldn't help most. Well and it gave up on the mega unified storm.

Plymouth county getting crushed right now. I'm not in the best of it and I have heavy snow.

 

GFS and euro from 12z yesterday look similar to me. GFS might verify a touch better across your area.

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I thought the guidance was fine for last night. All models worked for me. The all had the same features which all basically told the story since the 12z guidance came out. They all had the second reinforcing stuff clipping SE MA and the Cape like it is now.

 

 

Models sucked for west of Boston....the cutoff was far sharper.

 

 

But sometimes that happens. Usually though you will see a more gradient look to the QPF (esp on the mesomodels) when that is a large threat. That band last night though definitely helped choke off the qpf to the NW....even more than you would probably adjust for on the models.

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Here's my take

This "storm" was mostly about mid level 7H forcing . The whole damn band from me md to Phil to mt tolland to franklin last nite was from primarily this feature and the models were pretty damn solid w it

There was gonna be a bust one way other w sharp cut offs nw of this forcing and nobody can be expected to nail the cut off.

So in sne it was from a of Danbury to just S of 84 to holliston to boston . Was modeled pretty damn well but what forecaster is gonna put out a map w 1-5 from bos nw and 8-14 just s of bos w lolli's where oe and fronto combined

The qpf queen comments are usually from posters who dont wanna hear anything negative or over react and think every damn comment (which they cant determine the context is a panic)

I was concerned immediately in am yesterday (after looking at mon nite's 7h forcing / mid level lift cut sharply on gfs overnite last nite and i was called a panicker by most, when it was a model comment and accurate btw

And there was some noise between different models wrt mid level lift getting to 495 for a cpl few hr Bursts and for a time overnite last nite (till it was cut yesterday). Some storms people talk mid levels too much, this storm was dependent on more 7h forcing then any i can recall

I was just breaking your balls over your posting style, not refuting what you were trying to convey.

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Models sucked for west of Boston....the cutoff was far sharper.

 

 

But sometimes that happens. Usually though you will see a more gradient look to the QPF (esp on the mesomodels) when that is a large threat. That band last night though definitely helped choke off the qpf to the NW....even more than you would probably adjust for on the models.

Thank you.

 

No one's fault.

It is what it is.

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Thank you.

 

No one's fault.

It is what it is.

 

 

Yep, models can get some general features right, but still suck. Even the more pessimistic models didn't show that type of cutoff. Its always a "risk" with the big banding...but you wouldn't forecast that based on what we were seeing on the models.

 

Typically you want to see a really strong cutoff on qpf and also a high to our north (versus more northwest)...we saw that signature in the Dec '09 storm, to our south near NYC in the Feb 5-6, 2010 storm, and likely storms such as Blizz '96, and PDI.

 

It would have been nice for models to give us a better clue on that, since you only have so much to work with. There's a reaosn not one single meteorlogist or hobbyist predicted 1-2" for Wilmington to ORH. :lol:  With the benefit of hindsight, its a bit easier, but I don't think anyone can say that was identifiable yesterday morning before the storm.

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Models sucked for west of Boston....the cutoff was far sharper.

 

 

But sometimes that happens. Usually though you will see a more gradient look to the QPF (esp on the mesomodels) when that is a large threat. That band last night though definitely helped choke off the qpf to the NW....even more than you would probably adjust for on the models.

 

I meant more for yesterday down by him. At least that is what I thought he meant. 

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Ray, that was more geared to yesterday's suite. I don't disagree with you.

 

It comes down to lift. The models weakened the forcing too much last night which did no induce an exhaust area to the NW. This is not the first time I have seen models too weak with that stretch deformation band like what occurred last night. Red flag when models have all that lift and decent QPF to the NW, but not I think I know why.

 

Post edited.

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Usually models will to smooth out things such as qpf distributions, so I guess we just need to try to recognize when that may be the case....easier said, I know.

 

I had to make an edit...but I think they weakened the forcing too quickly. The models blew their load down by NYC...but then the band went to town over my head. They didn't model that....but despite that look...I liked seeing the narrow linear band of forcing because there is always room for surprises. Well, there kind of was.

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