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Winter 2023/24 Medium/Long Range Discussion


Chicago Storm
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Id look for some input from [mention=525]OHweather[/mention] [mention=147]Chicago Storm[/mention] or [mention=3997]RCNYILWX[/mention], but from what Im gathering about the pattern later next week and beyond is that it would appear to have good clipper potential. Hopefully that can bring back the snow!

I was thinking that and this morning’s GFS run seemed to suggest that although the 12z was a nothingburger.


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28 minutes ago, DocATL said:


I was thinking that and this morning’s GFS run seemed to suggest that although the 12z was a nothingburger.


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clippers at long range have always been one of the models worst features. Thats why Im interested to see if the pros think its a clipper-producing pattern or just model theatrics on some runs.

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clippers at long range have always been one of the models worst features. Thats why Im interested to see if the pros think its a clipper-producing pattern or just model theatrics on some runs.
It looks like a pattern conducive to clippers but they're never sure things in any given areas. As an example, December 2017 had a good clipper pattern by recent standards but it mostly benefitted Wisconsin and Michigan. I noted the challenge forecasting clippers accurately at longer lead times in the long term AFD the past few days.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

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11 hours ago, RCNYILWX said:

It looks like a pattern conducive to clippers but they're never sure things in any given areas. As an example, December 2017 had a good clipper pattern by recent standards but it mostly benefitted Wisconsin and Michigan. I noted the challenge forecasting clippers accurately at longer lead times in the long term AFD the past few days.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 

Thanks. And yes I remember 2017 well, clipper heaven. Crazy disparity between Chicago (5.3") and Detroit (22.5") that month.

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On 2/7/2024 at 2:40 PM, Chicago Storm said:

I've been busy with other things, so haven't been able to focus on or put out any thoughts on the long range as of yet. Hopefully I'll have something out in the next day...

But, for now...

-I've seen some on social media trying to compare this upcoming period to what we saw in early-mid January. However, the setup on the large scale has differences when factoring everything in, so the outcome shouldn't be expected to be the same.
-Significant stratospheric warming is on the horizon. The Euro suggests this period of warming could be a full on SSWE, and could be the one that leads to the demise of the SPV for the season.
-The MJO appears as though it does not want to play ball, looking to stay in warmer phases and the COD during this period.
-This last two points regarding the SSW and MJO likely means it'll be more of a battle this go around.
-Based on the positioning of everything, temps will likely be more of a rollercoaster mix of below/seasonal/above.
-The pattern is likely to be active across the CONUS, with a W/NW flow. We'll see a constant parade of disturbances/troughs break off Bering Sea/Aleutian/Pacific mean troughing, then skimming across the CONUS.

the GFS completely obliterates the PV as well.

IMG_6760.png

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22 minutes ago, Stebo said:

If this happens forget about any late season wintry weather. You will have no source region for cold at that point.

Sustained? Of course not. But simply getting a late season snow, especially when some of those systems create their own air, don't ever underestimate that in this neck of the woods lol.

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Thursday thru Saturday us a period to watch for some possible snow, but the finer details and continuity on the models is just terrible at this lead, so not worth going in depth on anything at this time.

Euro is hardly interested but the GFS is stringing us along…


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3 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

Sustained? Of course not. But simply getting a late season snow, especially when some of those systems create their own air, don't ever underestimate that in this neck of the woods lol.

I get you are trying to have a rosy disposition here, but that look going into March would be a back breaker for potential late season snowfall. No nothing is impossible but that would be a very bad look and kill a lot of cold in our cold source region.

 

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The trend over the last few days on the ensembles for the last few days of February has been awful. Trending to a -PNA/+EPO and at best a neutral AO and NAO pattern. So the eastern 2/3rds of the CONUS will trend mild to end this month as cold gets scoured from Canada. That’s not to say it can’t or won’t snow at some point in March, but we’re done with anything sustained at this point. The active stretch in January was fun. The rest has objectively sucked, which is how winters seem to go anymore. 

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57 minutes ago, OHweather said:

The trend over the last few days on the ensembles for the last few days of February has been awful. Trending to a -PNA/+EPO and at best a neutral AO and NAO pattern. So the eastern 2/3rds of the CONUS will trend mild to end this month as cold gets scoured from Canada. That’s not to say it can’t or won’t snow at some point in March, but we’re done with anything sustained at this point. The active stretch in January was fun. The rest has objectively sucked, which is how winters seem to go anymore. 

New climo - 2 weeks of winter preceded and followed by torch. Random 3 week cold snap in late april/early may when we are all fully in spring mode. 

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50 minutes ago, michsnowfreak said:

This is WAYYYY longrange, but talking modoki La Nina next year. I looked up what years were considered a modoki La Nina, and they are:

1973–1974
1975–1976
1983–1984
1988–1989
1998–1999
2000–2001
2008–2009
2010–2011
2016–2017
 

That composite = December will be rockin' here :snowing:

Man, we just can't seem to catch a break. Looks like a scorching summer based on that set of analogs. :frostymelt:

For Detroit area, the preceding summers include the warmest on record (2016, 74.9F); the 5th warmest on record (2010, 74.4F), and the 9th warmest on record (1988, 74.2F). 3 of the top 9 hottest summers [out of 150 years] from a set of 9 years is pretty impressive.

1983 (38 of 150), 2008 & 1998 (42 of 150), 1973 (47 of 150), and 1975 (61 of 150), were all above the long-term median (although these may be fairly typical summers compared to modern normals). Only 2000 was a legitimately cool summer, albeit nothing to write home about [being 49th coolest of 150 years].

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4 minutes ago, TheClimateChanger said:

Man, we just can't seem to catch a break. Looks like a scorching summer based on that set of analogs. :frostymelt:

For Detroit area, the preceding summers include the warmest on record (2016, 74.9F); the 5th warmest on record (2010, 74.4F), and the 9th warmest on record (1988, 74.2F). 3 of the top 9 hottest summers [out of 150 years] from a set of 9 years is pretty impressive.

1983 (38 of 150), 2008 & 1998 (42 of 150), 1973 (47 of 150), and 1975 (61 of 150), were all above the long-term median (although these may be fairly typical summers compared to modern normals). Only 2000 was a legitimately cool summer, albeit nothing to write home about [being 49th coolest of 150 years].

By average maximum temperature, we have the warmest (1988, 86.2F), the 3rd warmest (2016, 85.2F), and two just outside the Top 20 - the 21st warmest (2010, 83.5F) and the 22nd warmest (1983, 83.2F).

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8 minutes ago, TheClimateChanger said:

By average maximum temperature, we have the warmest (1988, 86.2F), the 3rd warmest (2016, 85.2F), and two just outside the Top 20 - the 21st warmest (2010, 83.5F) and the 22nd warmest (1983, 83.2F).

Even more ominous when limited to those years following a year with a peak ONI of +1.6C or higher. That would leave only 1973, 1983, 1988, 1998, 2010, and 2016.

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1 hour ago, TheClimateChanger said:

Man, we just can't seem to catch a break. Looks like a scorching summer based on that set of analogs. :frostymelt:

For Detroit area, the preceding summers include the warmest on record (2016, 74.9F); the 5th warmest on record (2010, 74.4F), and the 9th warmest on record (1988, 74.2F). 3 of the top 9 hottest summers [out of 150 years] from a set of 9 years is pretty impressive.

1983 (38 of 150), 2008 & 1998 (42 of 150), 1973 (47 of 150), and 1975 (61 of 150), were all above the long-term median (although these may be fairly typical summers compared to modern normals). Only 2000 was a legitimately cool summer, albeit nothing to write home about [being 49th coolest of 150 years].

I fully expect a hot summer this year in a nino to nina transition. As Ive said before, by far the season that has warmed most here has been summer (esp mins), so I doubt the absence of 90F-heat will grace us 2 years in a row. 

90F+ days (avg is 13) in summers preceding Modoki Ninas

1973– 9 days
1975– 4 days
1983– 21 days
1988– 39 days (most on record)
1998– 10 days
2000– 1 day
2008– 7 days 
2010– 17 days
2016– 23 days

***

Nino to Nina transition years

1954- 17 days

1964- 26 days

1973- 9 days

1988- 39 days

1998- 10 days

2010- 17 days

2016- 23 days

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