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Severe Weather Threat Week...so many threats!!!


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3 minutes ago, Torch Tiger said:

Yeah like I said, this graph does not account for winter driving fatalities. 

Yeah.  Hard to find any one good source for some of these details.  Some data (CDC) says cold kills more than heat     

 

Some sources have 1800 killed per year due to icy/snowy driving conditions

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9 minutes ago, Torch Tiger said:

"hyperbole" ha.  The graph obviously does not account for the 1000+ fatalities/year, either indirectly or directly related winter driving conditions. 

"

Weather-Related Vehicle Accidents Far More Deadly Than Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Floods

By Chris Dolce

February 05, 2022"

weather_fatalities_2021.jpg

Humans driving like idiots in winter sort of make that irrelevant. 

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9 minutes ago, Torch Tiger said:

"hyperbole" ha.  The graph obviously does not account for the 1000+ fatalities/year, either indirectly or directly related winter driving conditions. 

"

Weather-Related Vehicle Accidents Far More Deadly Than Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Floods

By Chris Dolce

February 05, 2022"

weather_fatalities_2021.jpg

But IMO it's more often the run-of-the-mill wintry wx that cause the fatal crashes than the blockbusters loved by most on AMWX.  :D

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It’s definitely weird/hypocritical for winter weather enthusiasts to call out severe enthusiasts.  Is there a moral high ground? Also, does it matter?  Severe doesn’t happen because people enjoy it.  We could all hope it never happens and it still would.  

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8 minutes ago, JJBASHB said:

It’s definitely weird/hypocritical for winter weather enthusiasts to call out severe enthusiasts.  Is there a moral high ground? Also, does it matter?  Severe doesn’t happen because people enjoy it.  We could all hope it never happens and it still would.  

No one but DIT has control over the weather...

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There is alot that needs to be taken into account when comparing all of those weather phenomena. When it comes to phenomena such as a winter storm or hurricane there is typically tremendous lead time to start preparations. Like Scott said, when it comes to winter and people driving like idiots...well that's something to factor too. Phenomena such as thunderstorms, flooding, and tornadoes the lead time isn't as great (and for obvious reasons). 

Of the deaths (relating to say lightning, tornadoes, wind damage) the question becomes what kind of actions did the individual take or what kind of guidance was provided by group leaders in settings involving large groups of people? For the most part, a majority of weather-related deaths can be avoided. Of course there are exceptions. 

anyways...that is a sad and truly heart-breaking story. 

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Monday could be similar to yesterday except perhaps a bit more widespread. Bulk shear looks to be extremely impressive. As per the usual, mid-level lapse rates are quite garbage but this will be offset a bit by the very buoyant low-level airmass which will be in place. LCL's will be rather high but given the lack of stronger forcing (which has positives and negatives) we could be looking at several supercells possible. 

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32 minutes ago, JJBASHB said:

It’s definitely weird/hypocritical for winter weather enthusiasts to call out severe enthusiasts.  Is there a moral high ground? Also, does it matter?  Severe doesn’t happen because people enjoy it.  We could all hope it never happens and it still would.  

Honestly, more people probably die from high heat and humidity than from SVR or winter.  Probably should stop wishing for hot temps in summer.  I could get behind that one. 

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44 minutes ago, tamarack said:

But IMO it's more often the run-of-the-mill wintry wx that cause the fatal crashes than the blockbusters loved by most on AMWX.  :D

Maybe, maybe not.  Please don't forget those who died in Dec. 1992 (17), or 1993 superstorm (270 died, not all were winter wx related of course)...and on, and on.  It's not hyperbole

I guess my point is that "fun" isn't a good word for more extreme weather; exciting and "awesome" though, yeah.  

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3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Honestly, more people probably die from high heat and humidity than from SVR or winter.  Probably should stop wishing for hot temps in summer.  I could get behind that one. 

While the overall debate is a worthy debate, the notion of debating to try and classify one weather phenomena as "better" than the other is ridiculous. And the debate of trying to justify the like and desire for a particular type of weather is ridiculous. 

Every type of weather phenomena has it's own risk. There are some phenomena which have a greater lead time in awareness and warning which reduces the risk for injuries and death - should an individual take the proper guidance they are given. For example, let's say winter storms had the same lead time as thunderstorms - deaths from winter storms would probably be quite staggering. In fact, we probably see a glimpse of how bad it could be with snow squalls (not just locally but look at what happens across other areas of the country - massive interstate pileups which can bring about big death totals). 

 

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I’ve never understood the argument on this board.  

First, there is nothing any of us can do about the track/severity of a cane, blizzard, tornado, etc., other than mitigate the risk by providing lead time to the public. Is it in poor taste to root for a derecho, or tor, or crippling blizzard/cold snap/heat wave? Probably, because in dangerous situations bad things happen to people irrespective of whether it’s their fault or not, but wx doesn’t care about my emotions or desires. Never has, never will.

Second, a lot of the violent wx we see is the atmosphere doing what it’s designed to do—seek balance. Fascination with and the desire to observe the power of wx shouldn’t be confused with glee of the impact on people and communities. The science is often brought forward by people who are in awe of the power but are humbled by the impact. To me, that’s morally neutral. 

Third—if there is a moral hierarchy of what can be liked, where’s the line? Is there anything in wx that’s 100% safe? 

I’ve always felt that like other things in life, you take wx as it comes, whatever that may be. I have zero interest in a tree falling on my new house, or my wife spinning off the road in a January warning level event—two things that could very well happen someday. But that’s not because of my fascination with tropical or snow. 

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54 minutes ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Yeah.  Hard to find any one good source for some of these details.  Some data (CDC) says cold kills more than heat     

 

Some sources have 1800 killed per year due to icy/snowy driving conditions

Avalanches account for the greatest number of wx deaths in Alaska.  We need to melt this stuff away, ASAP ;)

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10 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

I’ve never understood the argument on this board.  

First, there is nothing any of us can do about the track/severity of a cane, blizzard, tornado, etc., other than mitigate the risk by providing lead time to the public. Is it in poor taste to root for a derecho, or tor, or crippling blizzard/cold snap/heat wave? Probably, because in dangerous situations bad things happen to people irrespective of whether it’s their fault or not, but wx doesn’t care about my emotions or desires. Never has, never will.

Second, a lot of the violent wx we see is the atmosphere doing what it’s designed to do—seek balance. Fascination with and the desire to observe the power of wx shouldn’t be confused with glee of the impact on people and communities. The science is often brought forward by people who are in awe of the power but are humbled by the impact. To me, that’s morally neutral. 

Third—if there is a moral hierarchy of what can be liked, where’s the line? Is there anything in wx that’s 100% safe? 

I’ve always felt that like other things in life, you take wx as it comes, whatever that may be. I have zero interest in a tree falling on my new house, or my wife spinning off the road in a January warning level event—two things that could very well happen someday. But that’s not because of my fascination with tropical or snow. 

I don't think this could be stated or explained any more perfectly than this. 

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45 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

I’ve never understood the argument on this board.  

First, there is nothing any of us can do about the track/severity of a cane, blizzard, tornado, etc., other than mitigate the risk by providing lead time to the public. Is it in poor taste to root for a derecho, or tor, or crippling blizzard/cold snap/heat wave? Probably, because in dangerous situations bad things happen to people irrespective of whether it’s their fault or not, but wx doesn’t care about my emotions or desires. Never has, never will.

Second, a lot of the violent wx we see is the atmosphere doing what it’s designed to do—seek balance. Fascination with and the desire to observe the power of wx shouldn’t be confused with glee of the impact on people and communities. The science is often brought forward by people who are in awe of the power but are humbled by the impact. To me, that’s morally neutral. 

Third—if there is a moral hierarchy of what can be liked, where’s the line? Is there anything in wx that’s 100% safe? 

I’ve always felt that like other things in life, you take wx as it comes, whatever that may be. I have zero interest in a tree falling on my new house, or my wife spinning off the road in a January warning level event—two things that could very well happen someday. But that’s not because of my fascination with tropical or snow. 

I think it's the poor taste thing. There won't be more or less elementary school shootings if you root for them. Generally, anytime you root for death you're not going to get a good reaction.

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23 minutes ago, kdxken said:

I think it's the poor taste thing. There won't be more or less elementary school shootings if you root for them. Generally, anytime you root for death you're not going to get a good reaction.

The poor taste part is fair.  I think the debate comes down to: to me there is no difference between being enthusiastic about atmospheric events like blizzards and severe when it comes to “poor taste.” Both are equally poor if you want to parse details enough and get into that pissing match.  School shootings are on a completely different level, too.  Completely off the scale in realm of poor taste.  
 

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I don't exactly want bad things to happen but I feel drawn to watching them when they do.  Part of me wants that big hurricane to hit a population center instead of going fishing.  I think it's fair if people want to criticize that.  I'm less than perfect in many other ways too.

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