IDA remnants OBS-nowcasts (storm total rain and/or unusual flooding, wind damage-power outage, gusts ~45+ MPH) Wed-Thu morning Sept 1-2, 2021

[LibertyBell]

11 hours ago, bluewave said:

 

 

It was mentioned that similar warnings were made in Germany and somehow they didn't get properly communicated either.

Seems like these historic floods have been occurring worldwide this summer....

[LibertyBell]

16 hours ago, qg_omega said:

Deblasio trashing meteorologists for not predicting this, blaming it all on global warming

uhm the meteorologists have been saying for YEARS that this was coming and it's because of climate change

 

[LibertyBell]

15 hours ago, Brian5671 said:

worst mayor ever.    Lee Goldberg was on TV saying don't go out-it's life threatening-plenty of warning on this event.

Yeah Lee also said why the warning system needs to be changed because of how much more frequent these events are becoming

[LibertyBell]

13 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

Some scenes from the aftermath of the flood in Mamaroneck. The air hangs thick with the smell of oil and gas. There are rancid odors of decaying material and rotting food in may parts of the flood-stricken area. If one looks at the last shot, one sees a chair caught high in the vegation with the muddy waters of the Sheldrake River down below in the right lower portion of the photo. The chair is approximately 15 feet above the river. The ice machine resting near a marked parking spot was swept nearly one-third of a mile to its resting place.

Many people have had their lives altered by this event. Businesses ranging from Bilotta (kitchen and cabinet store) to a gym that had to dispose of its treadmills were adversely impacted. Bilotta suffered a total loss of inventory (as occurred during the April 2007 flood), but this flood encompassed a larger area with the waters rising much more rapidly. Outside of Mamaroneck in Harrison, there was an ongoing search for a missing vehicle that was reportedly swept into the adjacent reservoir during the height of the storm.

Taking damage photos is among the worst aspects of storm photography. It is also part of the story. The human story behind the images is far more important than the actual images. That aspect should not be lost.

Don, these explosive fires being caused by water pressure on gas lines is another terrifying twist to this situation.

[LibertyBell]

11 hours ago, psv88 said:

My friend works in management for the LIRR and said they had no warning the floods were coming...the meteorologists, and the models, were highlighting the potential for devastating flooding for days. To blame the met community is criminal. The reality is nothing really could have been done because our infrastructure is 150 years old and we would rather spend $5 trillion to rebuild other countries when dozens die here in part due to poor infrastructure. 

This country needs to invest trillions to prepare for what is coming with CC. Sadly many more will die before action is taken.

Here's what needs to be done.....I believe Don mentioned this also..... FORCE the billionaire fossil fuel cartels to foot the bill for infrastructure and climate change catastrophes.  We're already doing it with lawsuits but it needs to be codified into law so they realize what the cost of wrecking the environment is.  Once the cost of doing business becomes too much, see ya, don't let the door hit them on their fat methane filled asses on the way out the door....

 

[donsutherland1]

4 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

Here's what needs to be done.....I believe Don mentioned this also..... FORCE the billionaire fossil fuel cartels to foot the bill for infrastructure and climate change catastrophes.  We're already doing it with lawsuits but it needs to be codified into law so they realize what the cost of wrecking the environment is.  Once the cost of doing business becomes too much, see ya, don't let the door hit them on their fat methane filled asses on the way out the door....

 

An IMF working paper estimated that after-tax externalities from the fossil fuel industry come to more than $640 billion each year in the United States. Society bears the burden of those costs. Put another way, this industry is the tobacco-asbestos-opioids industries on steroids without any of the liability for its harm. This is the ultimate “free rider” problem and it severely distorts market function. If the industry paid even 20% of the costs of its externalities to fund mitigation, adaptation, and disaster recovery, the energy industry would look very different. These companies, being self- interested and seeking profits, would have led the way to cleaner energy, as business-as-usual would have become largely or wholly unprofitable.

[bluewave]

Great write up from the Northeast Regional Climate Center.

http://www.nrcc.cornell.edu/services/blog/2021/09/03/index.html

Tropical Depression Ida dropped catastrophic amounts of rain on parts of the Northeast on September 1. A swath of the region stretching from eastern Pennsylvania and northern/central New Jersey through the New York City metro area and into southern New England saw rainfall totals of more than 6 inches. In fact, a corridor of 8- to 11-inch rainfall totals were found in southeastern Pennsylvania, northern/central New Jersey, and the New York City area. Newark, NJ, saw 8.41 inches of rain, making it the site’s all-time wettest day on record and already making September 2021 the site’s fourth wettest September on record. LaGuardia Airport, NY, also recorded its all-time wettest day with 6.80 inches of rain. Meanwhile, Bridgeport, CT, which saw 5.77 inches of rain, experienced its wettest September day.

http://www.nrcc.cornell.edu/services/blog/2021/09/03/20210903_daily_rain_ranks.png

Newark, NJ, and LaGuardia Airport, NY, had their all-time wettest day on record, while Bridgeport, CT, saw its wettest September day.

Rain fell at a rate of 3 to 5 inches per hour in some locations, with the bulk of the daily rainfall accumulating within a six-hour period in most areas. Newark, NJ, recorded its all-time wettest hour on record, seeing 3.24 inches of rain between 8 and 9 pm. The site’s one-hour rainfall, two-hour rainfall total of 5.06 inches, and six-hour total of 7.88 inches all qualified as 500-year storm events, meaning they have a 0.2% chance of happening in a given year. Similarly, Central Park, NY, had its all-time wettest hour on record with 3.15 inches of rain from 9 to 10 pm. That record had just been set less than two weeks prior from Tropical Storm Henri. Central Park’s two-hour rainfall of 4.65 inches and six-hour total of 6.63 inches also both qualified as 500-year storm events.

http://www.nrcc.cornell.edu/services/blog/2021/09/03/20210903_brandywine_chadds_ford.png

Several waterways reached their all-time highest water levels on record, including the Brandywine Creek at Chadds Ford, PA.

Many of these locations had just seen excessive rainfall from tropical systems Fred and Henri a few weeks prior. With saturated soils, waterways already running high, and the deluge from Ida, dozens of streamgages reached major flood stage, a water level high enough that “extensive inundation of structures and roads” and “significant evacuations” are possible.

In fact, water levels reached historic levels at several long-term sites. For example, Brandywine Creek at Chadds Ford, PA, which has records to the early 1900s, reached 21.04 feet, approaching the operational limit of the gage and beating the previous record of 17.15 feet from September 17, 1999. Similarly, the Raritan River at Manville, NJ, which also has records back to the early 1900s, reached a new record high water level of 27.66 feet. In addition, several more long-term sites reached near-record water levels. The Schuylkill River at Philadelphia, PA, reached 16.35 feet, its second highest crest on record and just below the all-time highest water level of 17.0 feet set back on October 4, 1869.

[donsutherland1]

Due to the flood damage, the Mamaroneck School District has delayed the start of school until September 13.

[Shades]

Emergency response measures to inform the public should not rely solely on media, the internet, for weather-related emergencies. If community-based sirens were utilized in a flash flood emergency, it would be hard to ignore or misinterpret. Many victims of the flooding, particularly in basement apartments were sleeping or otherwise tuned-out from information sources. A siren would elevate response and awareness to the danger and with appropriate guidance from other information sources, inform the public to move to higher ground as needed in life threatening measures. 

[wdrag]

2 hours ago, Shades said:

Emergency response measures to inform the public should not rely solely on media, the internet, for weather-related emergencies. If community-based sirens were utilized in a flash flood emergency, it would be hard to ignore or misinterpret. Many victims of the flooding, particularly in basement apartments were sleeping or otherwise tuned-out from information sources. A siren would elevate response and awareness to the danger and with appropriate guidance from other information sources, inform the public to move to higher ground as needed in life threatening measures. 

Processes will be improved including modeling a 2 hour window of potentially overwhelming-excessive rainfall and then it's up to us to get the message out out 2 hours in advance,  not within it's occurrence for which i'm afraid entrapment was occurring on roads near creeks and near overwhelmed drainage basins. Scary in that situation,  and what to do becomes a problem. 

[LibertyBell]

6 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

An IMF working paper estimated that after-tax externalities from the fossil fuel industry come to more than $640 billion each year in the United States. Society bears the burden of those costs. Put another way, this industry is the tobacco-asbestos-opioids industries on steroids without any of the liability for its harm. This is the ultimate “free rider” problem and it severely distorts market function. If the industry paid even 20% of the costs of its externalities to fund mitigation, adaptation, and disaster recovery, the energy industry would look very different. These companies, being self- interested and seeking profits, would have led the way to cleaner energy, as business-as-usual would have become largely or wholly unprofitable.

These companies need to be set on fire just like they've done to the planet.

And yes I mean literally.....they need to be burned to the ground by people since our politicians are dont have the spine to do what needs to be done.

Take no prisoners, as they say......

 

Did you read about this Don?

https://twitter.com/i/events/1434178344271192067

 

A huge oil spill in the wake of Ida that they were trying to cover up and which the New York Times just exposed?

 

[BxEngine]

3 hours ago, Shades said:

Emergency response measures to inform the public should not rely solely on media, the internet, for weather-related emergencies. If community-based sirens were utilized in a flash flood emergency, it would be hard to ignore or misinterpret. Many victims of the flooding, particularly in basement apartments were sleeping or otherwise tuned-out from information sources. A siren would elevate response and awareness to the danger and with appropriate guidance from other information sources, inform the public to move to higher ground as needed in life threatening measures. 

You mean the tens of thousands of people living in illegal apartments who for decades have ignored warning about why theyre unsafe, ignoring the ability to put smoke/co alarms or dont replace ones that go bad because “the alarm is annoying when we burn dinner”, ignored the hundreds of deaths over the years in illegal apts/dwellings, would suddenly listen to a siren? 
 

not sure im gonna buy that one. 

[rclab]

2 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

These companies need to be set on fire just like they've done to the planet.

And yes I mean literally.....they need to be burned to the ground by people since our politicians are dont have the spine to do what needs to be done.

Take no prisoners, as they say......

 

Did you read about this Don?

https://twitter.com/i/events/1434178344271192067

 

A huge oil spill in the wake of Ida that they were trying to cover up and which the New York Times just exposed?

 

Good evening Liberty. You are helping me by giving my last few brain cells a workout today. I agree with your passion. I do, however believe that your stated desire is more figurative. You have already wielded the most powerful weapon available ‘information’ it, when truthful, deals more damage than the torch. If the the Times, a paper I no longer admire, put this out as strict information then they did the right thing as they should always do. As a young firebrand ( no pun intended, Liberty, ) I believed that any CEO whose actions caused a company to fail at the loss of the livelihood of many should  be hung publicly on gallows erected on either side of the NYC Park Ave green spaces. I believed these monsters deserved not a golden parachute but instead a golden noose. Now I’ve mellowed so I believe they should be broken down to poverty level, forced to live in a homeless shelter and given training in the fine art of dumpster diving. It seems though all violent actions result in some collateral damage. For this situation the pen and the word are powerful enough. And Liberty, you used them well by bringing it to our attention. Thank you, as always ….

[gravitylover]

^^ The wisdom of the ages (aged?)

[donsutherland1]

Some photos from the New York Botanical Garden following major flooding along the Bronx River. The River is filled with mud. A large amount of sand was deposited along its banks. A large bench was ripped from its foundation along a path that is still closed to the public.

[cleetussnow]

4 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

These companies need to be set on fire just like they've done to the planet.

And yes I mean literally.....they need to be burned to the ground by people since our politicians are dont have the spine to do what needs to be done.

Take no prisoners, as they say......

 

Did you read about this Don?

https://twitter.com/i/events/1434178344271192067

 

A huge oil spill in the wake of Ida that they were trying to cover up and which the New York Times just exposed?

 

All we have to do is never buy what they are selling anymore.  No fossil fuels, plastics, etc and they go out of business. Easy!

[rclab]

2 hours ago, donsutherland1 said:

Some photos from the New York Botanical Garden following major flooding along the Bronx River. The River is filled with mud. A large amount of sand was deposited along its banks. A large bench was ripped from its foundation along a path that is still closed to the public.

Good evening Don. I had heard/read damned if I can remember ( it’s been that kind of day ) that the trunk portion of the Rockefeller Center tree was preserved and given for use in pastoral settings. Is it possible that the tree trunk in the last picture was from one of the Centers trees?

[LibertyBell]

4 hours ago, cleetussnow said:

All we have to do is never buy what they are selling anymore.  No fossil fuels, plastics, etc and they go out of business. Easy!

Yeah I've transitioned to electric for the most part.  Plastics are the garbage that's littering our oceans.  Earth is quickly turning into one huge garbage dump- no wonder the ultrarich want to leave the planet lol.

 

[LibertyBell]

6 hours ago, rclab said:

Good evening Liberty. You are helping me by giving my last few brain cells a workout today. I agree with your passion. I do, however believe that your stated desire is more figurative. You have already wielded the most powerful weapon available ‘information’ it, when truthful, deals more damage than the torch. If the the Times, a paper I no longer admire, put this out as strict information then they did the right thing as they should always do. As a young firebrand ( no pun intended, Liberty, ) I believed that any CEO whose actions caused a company to fail at the loss of the livelihood of many should  be hung publicly on gallows erected on either side of the NYC Park Ave green spaces. I believed these monsters deserved not a golden parachute but instead a golden noose. Now I’ve mellowed so I believe they should be broken down to poverty level, forced to live in a homeless shelter and given training in the fine art of dumpster diving. It seems though all violent actions result in some collateral damage. For this situation the pen and the word are powerful enough. And Liberty, you used them well by bringing it to our attention. Thank you, as always ….

I love the idea of replacing the golden parachute with a golden noose!  Very wise words my friend!  Once they know that they have no soft landing available to them maybe they will make better decisions....

[donsutherland1]

1 hour ago, rclab said:

Good evening Don. I had heard/read damned if I can remember ( it’s been that kind of day ) that the trunk portion of the Rockefeller Center tree was preserved and given for use in pastoral settings. Is it possible that the tree trunk in the last picture was from one of the Centers trees?

I am not sure. There has never been anything about the history of what had been a bench on a path that lay above the Bronx River. Moreover, there are numerous wooden benches just like that trunk portion in various parts of the Garden.

I’m sorry that I don’t know more.

[rclab]

29 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

I am not sure. There has never been anything about the history of what had been a bench on a path that lay above the Bronx River. Moreover, there are numerous wooden benches just like that trunk portion in various parts of the Garden.

I’m sorry that I don’t know more.

No Don you were fine the problem is me. Years ago, as I finally remembered, I purchased a pictorial book on the history of the Center tree,   There was even a conservation period where the tree was kept alive with a preserved root ball. One of the photos showed the trunk of one used in a pastoral scene. I’ll check my still real library to see if I can find it. Thank you for your prompt reply. As always …

[rclab]

1 hour ago, LibertyBell said:

Yeah I've transitioned to electric for the most part.  Plastics are the garbage that's littering our oceans.  Earth is quickly turning into one huge garbage dump- no wonder the ultrarich want to leave the planet lol.

 

Their leaving might actually might be the first step needed to fix it. As always ….

[LibertyBell]

17 minutes ago, rclab said:

Their leaving might actually might be the first step needed to fix it. As always ….

Indeed!  I loved Uncles seesaw idea of moving back and forth between the Earth and Mars.  Someone should write a story about that......

Did you know that there's a star system not that far away (relatively speaking of course), that might have 7 habitable planets?  Could you imagine what it would be like if life developed independently on even just 2 of those worlds?  Or even more remarkably if life developed on just one of those planets but was spread to the others via meteoric impacts?  Considering how much fighting we have between different countries, consider how much worse the fighting would be between different worlds.  Then again maybe they would have all learned to get along early on so they would avoid violence.

This is the system I'm talking about:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRAPPIST-1

 

It is about 40 light-years (12 pc) from the Sun in the constellation Aquarius.^[14][15] Seven temperate terrestrial planets have been detected orbiting it, more than any other planetary system except Kepler-90.^[16][17] A study released in May 2017 suggests that the stability of the system is not particularly surprising if one considers how the planets migrated to their present orbits through a protoplanetary disk.^[18][19]

A team of Belgian astronomers first discovered three Earth-sized planets orbiting the star in 2015. A team led by Michaël Gillon at the University of Liège in Belgium detected the planets using transit photometry with the Transiting Planets and Planetesimals Small Telescope (TRAPPIST) at the La Silla Observatory in Chile and the Observatoire de l'Oukaïmeden in Morocco.^[20][13][21] On 22 February 2017, astronomers announced four such additional exoplanets. This work used the Spitzer Space Telescope and the Very Large Telescope at Paranal, amongst others, and brought the total of planets to seven, of which at least three (e, f, and g) are considered to be within its habitable zone.^[13][22][23] All could be habitable as they may have liquid water somewhere on their surface.^[24][25][26] Depending on definition, up to six could be in the optimistic habitable zone (c, d, e, f, g, and h), with estimated equilibrium temperatures of 170 to 330 K (−103 to 57 °C; −154 to 134 °F).^[7] In November 2018, researchers determined that planet e is the most likely Earth-like ocean world and "would be an excellent choice for further study with habitability in mind."^[27]

[rclab]

7 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

Indeed!  I loved Uncles seesaw idea of moving back and forth between the Earth and Mars.  Someone should write a story about that......

Did you know that there's a star system not that far away (relatively speaking of course), that might have 7 habitable planets?  Could you imagine what it would be like if life developed independently on even just 2 of those worlds?  Or even more remarkably if life developed on just one of those planets but was spread to the others via meteoric impacts?  Considering how much fighting we have between different countries, consider how much worse the fighting would be between different worlds.  Then again maybe they would have all learned to get along early on so they would avoid violence.

This is the system I'm talking about:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRAPPIST-1

 

It is about 40 light-years (12 pc) from the Sun in the constellation Aquarius.^[14][15] Seven temperate terrestrial planets have been detected orbiting it, more than any other planetary system except Kepler-90.^[16][17] A study released in May 2017 suggests that the stability of the system is not particularly surprising if one considers how the planets migrated to their present orbits through a protoplanetary disk.^[18][19]

A team of Belgian astronomers first discovered three Earth-sized planets orbiting the star in 2015. A team led by Michaël Gillon at the University of Liège in Belgium detected the planets using transit photometry with the Transiting Planets and Planetesimals Small Telescope (TRAPPIST) at the La Silla Observatory in Chile and the Observatoire de l'Oukaïmeden in Morocco.^[20][13][21] On 22 February 2017, astronomers announced four such additional exoplanets. This work used the Spitzer Space Telescope and the Very Large Telescope at Paranal, amongst others, and brought the total of planets to seven, of which at least three (e, f, and g) are considered to be within its habitable zone.^[13][22][23] All could be habitable as they may have liquid water somewhere on their surface.^[24][25][26] Depending on definition, up to six could be in the optimistic habitable zone (c, d, e, f, g, and h), with estimated equilibrium temperatures of 170 to 330 K (−103 to 57 °C; −154 to 134 °F).^[7] In November 2018, researchers determined that planet e is the most likely Earth-like ocean world and "would be an excellent choice for further study with habitability in mind."^[27]

Good morning Liberty and thank you again for kicking my between the ears into first gear. I’ve always been fascinated by existence/life beyond what we know. We will always be constrained by Alberts, described, breaks of relativity unless we can discover  how black hole rotation can do it. Or perhaps we can find, on Mars, Prothean artifacts that will give us the technology to develop mass relays. ( thank you PS4/XBOX ). If you embrace the faith/spiritual you may see the constraints as a necessary intelligently designed playpen until such time as we are matured enough to mix/contribute. if you espouse secular science and continuously seek prove/disprove you may see our existence as a proof that sentience pushes you forward at the expense/destruction of our own source. I have to find and re-read Uncles idea now. Now I’m waiting for my penance to start working. If it’s too slow I’ll start reading the news. Thank you again. As always …..

[A Moonlit Sky]

1 hour ago, rclab said:

Good morning Liberty and thank you again for kicking my between the ears into first gear. I’ve always been fascinated by existence/life beyond what we know. We will always be constrained by Alberts, described, breaks of relativity unless we can discover  how black hole rotation can do it. Or perhaps we can find, on Mars, Prothean artifacts that will give us the technology to develop mass relays. ( thank you PS4/XBOX ). If you embrace the faith/spiritual you may see the constraints as a necessary intelligently designed playpen until such time as we are matured enough to mix/contribute. if you espouse secular science and continuously seek prove/disprove you may see our existence as a proof that sentience pushes you forward at the expense/destruction of our own source. I have to find and re-read Uncles idea now. Now I’m waiting for my penance to start working. If it’s too slow I’ll start reading the news. Thank you again. As always …..

I personally think that faith and science compliment each other. For this reason, I have great respect for the Jesuits. But, I am very pessimistic about our ability to venture out into the universe in any big way for the foreseeable future. I want to--I've read so much classic scifi--but there are so many horrific problems to solve for humans to be able to live in space or on a planet like Mars. It's probably easier for us to "solve" climate change than it is to make Mars work.

[rclab]

On 9/4/2021 at 6:32 PM, donsutherland1 said:

Some photos from the New York Botanical Garden following major flooding along the Bronx River. The River is filled with mud. A large amount of sand was deposited along its banks. A large bench was ripped from its foundation along a path that is still closed to the public.

Good evening Don. The images below are from the book I mentioned. The late Willard Scott wrote the foreword. The second photo is of the centers 1996 tree trunk which was donated to a horse trials facility in Gladstone NJ. The third photo is of two 30’ and a 50’ tree erected with their root ball in 1942. They were Norway Spruces and were replanted after the holiday. No trees were lit during the war due to blackout. I wish that live tree replanting had become part of the tradition. Their is no indication of a trunk being donated to the NYC Botanical Garden. As always …

 

 

[donsutherland1]

1 hour ago, rclab said:

Good evening Don. The images below are from the book I mentioned. The late Willard Scott wrote the foreword. The second photo is of the centers 1996 tree trunk which was donated to a horse trials facility in Gladstone NJ. The third photo is of two 30’ and a 50’ trees erected with their root ball in 1942. They were Norway Spruces and were replanted after the holiday. No trees were lit during the war due to blackout. I wish that live tree replanting had become part of the tradition. Their is no indication of a trunk being donated to the NYC Botanical Garden. As always …

 

 

Thanks for this interesting update.

[donsutherland1]

A sad closing chapter to the flood:

 

[donsutherland1]

Revised list of 1.50” hourly rainfall in NYC:

[Stormlover74]

This is good news