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Not to pour water on the govt threats conspiracy, but I think companies are hearing from vaccinated employees that they don't want to be in buildings with unvaxxed employees.  In a state like Mass, where 64% are vaccinated, the majority of a company's employees are probably vaxxed and as HR starts doing "back to work" discussions with their management and employees, this may be something that comes up.  So if 10% of your workforce complains about not wanting to get jabbed, and 40% complain about having to sit next to someone that is not vaxxed, what do you do?  Then you also have to figure that a lot of people are looking for reasons to continue their work from home routine as well.

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8 minutes ago, QCD17 said:

Not to pour water on the govt threats conspiracy, but I think companies are hearing from vaccinated employees that they don't want to be in buildings with unvaxxed employees.  In a state like Mass, where 64% are vaccinated, the majority of a company's employees are probably vaxxed and as HR starts doing "back to work" discussions with their management and employees, this may be something that comes up.  So if 10% of your workforce complains about not wanting to get jabbed, and 40% complain about having to sit next to someone that is not vaxxed, what do you do?  Then you also have to figure that a lot of people are looking for reasons to continue their work from home routine as well.

There is definitely some of that. I make the comment here sometimes that no matter what stance I take on this issue, 50% of my staff will be outraged and some will threaten to quit. That being said, since May we have had no issues with COVID concerns amongst the employees. Everyone seemed satisfied with where things landed after mask mandates were lifted. It's only recently that this issue has resurfaced. For my staff, mandating the vaccine would cause many more issues than it would solve and put me squarely in the middle as the bad guy.

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But again, very few businesses have mandated vaccines yet. I don't think this is as widespread of an issue for Americans as the media paints it. Most Americans received the vaccine to protect themselves and are not trying to force others to get it. If this was a widespread concern, we would have seen businesses doing this all along since January.

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7 minutes ago, QCD17 said:

 Then you also have to figure that a lot of people are looking for reasons to continue their work from home routine as well.

Ding ding, we have a winner. 
I know some where I work that haven't  been in the building since March 2020. And with mandates today, they’re not likely back until 2022. That’s a solid 2 years sitting at home. Why would they want to come back.

But yea, we’ll have a vax mandate by the end of the year. That’s the only way we’ll get out of masks. I’m sure that’s the angle. 

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2 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Ding ding, we have a winner. 
I know some where I work that haven't  been in the building since March 2020. And with mandates today, they’re not likely back until 2022. That’s a solid 2 years sitting at home. Why would they want to come back.

But yea, we’ll have a vax mandate by the end of the year. That’s the only way we’ll get out of masks. I’m sure that’s the angle. 

Wait, your company has workers, even remote admin, accounting or HR functions, that haven’t returned to the office to be in those roles?   That’s still a thing?

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4 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Ding ding, we have a winner. 
I know some where I work that haven't  been in the building since March 2020. And with mandates today, they’re not likely back until 2022. That’s a solid 2 years sitting at home. Why would they want to come back.

But yea, we’ll have a vax mandate by the end of the year. That’s the only way we’ll get out of masks. I’m sure that’s the angle. 

The issue with the logic here is that making people wear masks and socially-distance at work actually encourages teleworking, so that offsets any supposed gain to be had in reducing teleworking by mandating vaccines. I don't think people are not coming back to work due to vaccine status. I am not seeing that.

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3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Wait, your company has workers, even remote admin, accounting or HR functions, that haven’t returned to the office to be in those roles?   That’s still a thing?

Lol. Dude, we have PhD scientists that manage projects and people who I haven’t seen in person in 17 months. We have a campus of 3000. On any given day there MIGHT  be 200 scattered across 10 buildings across eastern Massachusetts. 

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10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

But again, very few businesses have mandated vaccines yet. I don't think this is as widespread of an issue for Americans as the media paints it. Most Americans received the vaccine to protect themselves and are not trying to force others to get it. If this was a widespread concern, we would have seen businesses doing this all along since January.

About 70% of people support vax mandates, including about 50% of republicans (to my surprise).  that's probably why you saw republican politicians criticizing anti-vaxxers last week, and employers starting to mandate them recently.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/565641-poll-68-percent-support-vaccine-mandate

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2 minutes ago, fujiwara79 said:

About 70% of people support vax mandates, including about 50% of republicans (to my surprise).  that's probably why you saw republican politicians criticizing anti-vaxxers last week, and employers starting to mandate them recently.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/565641-poll-68-percent-support-vaccine-mandate

How often do you leave your house? Serious question. You sound like a hermit guy I know who is really into lockdowns, mandates, and the like. He isn't even affected because he is always home. He has been "on lockdown" for like 25 years straight already. 2020 was like a dream year for him. He was finally the normal one.

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10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

The issue with the logic here is that making people wear masks and socially-distance at work actually encourages teleworking, so that offsets any supposed gain to be had in reducing teleworking by mandating vaccines. I don't think people are not coming back to work due to vaccine status. I am not seeing that.

Yes. The company wants them back, but the policies are just making them stay home. 
I could work from home at least 2days a week, maybe 3.  It my lab folks are there everyday. I’d be a pretty shitty boss if I just sat on my butt at home because I didnt want to wear a mask but made them come in since they can’t do lab work from their couch. 

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8 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Lol. Dude, we have PhD scientists that manage projects and people who I haven’t seen in person in 17 months. We have a campus of 3000. On any given day there MIGHT  be 200 scattered across 10 buildings across eastern Massachusetts. 

Yeah wow, time to end that.  Even the 8-floors of corporate offices and shared workplaces (called the mothership) out in Denver are all admin, desk jobs and they’ve been back for many months.  Jobs that could be done remotely but returned once state’s vax status hit a given level.

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13 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Yes. The company wants them back, but the policies are just making them stay home. 
I could work from home at least 2days a week, maybe 3.  It my lab folks are there everyday. I’d be a pretty shitty boss if I just sat on my butt at home because I didnt want to wear a mask but made them come in since they can’t do lab work from their couch. 

:clap:

I’d work for you.  I’ve always found that being in the trenches with the employees makes for a performing workforce.  Being remote, staying invisible, not interacting in person… that’s not a leader.  COVID not withstanding. 

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7 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I find it hard to believe at this point there are still people out there clinging to the idea that if only we jab every man, woman and child in this country the pandemic will miraculously end, even if cases still exist. How does that even make sense now?

 

tenor.gif

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3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah wow, time to end that.  Even the 8-floors of corporate offices and shared workplaces (called the mothership) out in Denver are all admin, desk jobs and they’ve been back for many months.  Jobs that could be done remotely but returned once state’s vax status hit a given level.

Why?

if they are getting work done and meeting deliverables with qualitative results what difference does it make where they do it 

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3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

:clap:

I’d work for you.  I’ve always found that being in the trenches with the employees makes for a performing workforce.  Being remote, staying invisible, not interacting in person… that’s not a leader.  COVID not withstanding. 

Uh oh, be careful. There is a crew here who will call you an out-of-touch micromanaging insecure boss with an attitude like that.

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1 minute ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Work revolution cannot be stopped. 
 

as the saying goes …that’s a ship that has definitely sailed. 

I am seeing some employees who know they can't be easily replaced simply refusing to return. There are also others who are desperate to get back to the regular routine and came in as early and often as they could. Not a one-size-fits-all situation here.

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6 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Uh oh, be careful. There is a crew here who will call you an out-of-touch micromanaging insecure boss with an attitude like that.

Ha, nah, being in the trenches with the team in the service industry?  That’s how you win respect.  You take the pissed off Dad who’s kids have been azzhats the entire drive and Mom is about to just walk away from the whole thing?  Convince them to relax and have a good time… that’s what they pay you for.  Definitely a difference between a product trying to be manufactured and a product that is an experience.

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14 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

Why?

if they are getting work done and meeting deliverables with qualitative results what difference does it make where they do it 

Depends on what it is. A scientific enterprise thrives on daily interaction and face to face working together. We’ve found it very difficult to build a team environment thats needed to do good science and drug discovery on zoom. 

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2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Ha, nah, being in the trenches with the team in the service industry?  That’s how you win respect.  You take the pissed off Dad who’s kids have been azzhats the entire drive and Mom is about to just walk away from the whole thing?  Convince them to relax and have a good time… that’s what they pay you for.  Definitely a difference between a product trying to be manufactured and a product that is an experience.

The boss who leads from the front and by example is usually the best. 

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30 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I am seeing some employees who know they can't be easily replaced simply refusing to return. There are also others who are desperate to get back to the regular routine and came in as early and often as they could. Not a one-size-fits-all situation here.

Well unfortunately the accompanying leverage has less to do with what people want. 

It has to do with what corporations are willing to pay for. The impetus: companies do not want to pay overhead for facilities when all of this has exposed the previous model giant money sink all along. 

Pressure from environmentalist and the very real environmental concern with a carbon footprint is also modulating or modifying those decision making. There is a quantitative energy consumption from the moment somebody leaves the house in the morning to the moment they come home; that entire spectrum of affairs costs environment exactly where the environment cannot afford to spend. Most people who are business owners don’t think about this kind of stuff; they are intrinsically GOP types whether they mean to be or not - unwittingly so. Or they specialized in green renewable space, or they are going to be downsizing, whether they mean to or not.  For companies that come before the environment … we’re coming to a point where the environment started to dictate policy because we have no fing choice and so neither will they 

Anyone who thinks or projects otherwise is on the wrong side of history…

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3 hours ago, Damage In Tolland said:

When Ian and her conversate on Twitter , I happen to see some of her tweets from his democratic feed and her tweets are enough to make her family wake up one night and leave her alone asleep for a new life and high five each other for the rest of their lives 

i don’t talk to Ian on twitter, so…

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23 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

Depends on what it is. A scientific enterprise thrives on daily interaction and face to face working together. We’ve found it very difficult to build a team environment thats needed to do good science and drug discovery on zoom. 

Well … I guess in that situation you would not be ‘meeting deliverables with qualitative results’ huh  

you wouldn’t expect those people to do things from home and zoom

but… Like I was just saying to Phin … we may not have any choice as a species at a species level 

it seriously all going to have to change and the sooner the better. 
 

this pandemic has that weird kind of serendipitous timing that will take historians to recognize -because sooner is better and perhaps necessity; it’s really giving us a perfect opportunity to experiment with a new way of thinking about labor and occupation and resource logistics and management across the whole spectrum of industry. Wake up call

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