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Baroclinic Zone

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21 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Until you sell your business then the employees are shit out of luck and it becomes strictly a numbers game with the olds first out the door. You are a minority in the corporate world 

Yes, that is a bad situation and happens too often. 

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1 hour ago, PhineasC said:

There is definitely a generational gap here. Millennials are known for having basically zero loyalty to their employer and being ready to jump at the drop of a hat for even a tiny raise. I could see how someone who views himself as a mercenary wouldn't care about actual team building because he plans to leave within 6 months. He would be content to never see any of his coworkers. People should remember it's a two-way street, however. Don't cry when your employer suddenly drops you like it's hot and upgrades to the guy who covers your tasks and still comes into the office to gel with the team. It would be silly for the employer to pick the WFH guy over that type of person.

Any employee should show zero long term loyalty to an employer in almost all cases. As soon as it becomes convenient, a company won’t hesitate to drop you like a rock, especially if it can save them a dime.

Ask a lot of boomers how that whole loyalty thing has gone over the last 5 or 10 years. My neighbor worked for the same company for over 30 years. Couple years ago, end of the day on a Friday, they laid him off, that was it. 30 years... laid off on a Friday afternoon, no notice, nothing. 
 

The double standard of employer and employee loyalty in the American workforce is absolutely outrageous. The employee is supposed to give at least two weeks notice, preferably longer, while the employer can kick your ass out the door with not notice and that’s it.

At the end of the day, I have to do what’s best for me. I know if my employer could find a way to axe everyone tomorrow, they would.

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13 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

Any employee should show zero long term loyalty to an employer in almost all cases. As soon as it becomes convenient, a company won’t hesitate to drop you like a rock, especially if it can save them a dime.

Ask a lot of boomers how that whole loyalty thing has gone over the last 5 or 10 years. My neighbor worked for the same company for over 30 years. Couple years ago, end of the day on a Friday, they laid him off, that was it. 30 years... laid off on a Friday afternoon, no notice, nothing. 
 

The double standard of employer and employee loyalty in the American workforce is absolutely outrageous. The employee is supposed to give at least two weeks notice, preferably longer, while the employer can kick your ass out the door with not notice and that’s it.

At the end of the day, I have to do what’s best for me. I know if my employer could find a way to axe everyone tomorrow, they would.

It seems like we are talking about two different kids of loyalty.

The kind of situation you are talking about where a Boomer worked somewhere for 30 years in the same exact job role before being unceremoniously dumped without a pension happens all the time... because it isn't 1960 anymore. I never suggest someone stay put forever without moving up the ladder. That's not a good plan. I have this dialog all the time with other business leaders in my industry. "Butt in seat" time is no longer what it once was. You need to shake up your career sometimes or you will be overtaken by someone else. That's part of the price of the expended global job market and free trade everyone wanted. 

That said, if you jump, it needs to be a forward move, not a lateral one. A bunch of lateral moves make you look fickle and unable to cope with stress and conflict at work. It's basically the Tinder dating of employment. Just swipe when you are bored of your job or your coworker is being mean.

There is still a strong market for loyal employees with in-demand skillsets and they very quickly climb the ladder and do well. They don't stagnate, so the example of the guy who spent 30 years putting lids on jars during the third shift only to be fired and replaced with a robot doesn't really apply to them.

I don't disagree that the larger job market is more of a commodity deal. People come and go at will. 

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I mean, it doesn’t get more millennial than me, I just turned 27.

Ive ended up in blue collar work (nothing wrong with that), and acquired licenses and certifications that make me a decent wage. The problem is, is I’ve pretty much maxed out, and this isn’t whT I want to be doing long term.

I have a bachelors degree in criminal justice. I’ve applied to hundreds of CJ type jobs since graduating in 2016... and received a handful of interviews. It is absolutely impossible to break into the field. I had to pivot to what I’m doing now.

Im aware that my long term prospects in what I’m doing now probably aren’t great, but it’s been like banging my head against the wall even trying to get a foot in the door to what I really want to do.

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4 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

I mean, it doesn’t get more millennial than me, I just turned 27.

Ive ended up in blue collar work (nothing wrong with that), and acquired licenses and certifications that make me a decent wage. The problem is, is I’ve pretty much maxed out, and this isn’t whT I want to be doing long term.

I have a bachelors degree in criminal justice. I’ve applied to hundreds of CJ type jobs since graduating in 2016... and received a handful of interviews. It is absolutely impossible to break into the field. I had to pivot to what I’m doing now.

Im aware that my long term prospects in what I’m doing now probably aren’t great, but it’s been like banging my head against the wall even trying to get a foot in the door to what I really want to do.

Do what you have to do for now but keep grinding at what you really want to do. The uphill battle sucks but Eventually it will be break your way...but you don’t want to look back decades from now wondering what could have been. The most important aspect of any career is loving what you do, that’s it. If you are passionate about your profession,  everything else will fall into place. 

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40 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

I mean, it doesn’t get more millennial than me, I just turned 27.

Ive ended up in blue collar work (nothing wrong with that), and acquired licenses and certifications that make me a decent wage. The problem is, is I’ve pretty much maxed out, and this isn’t whT I want to be doing long term.

I have a bachelors degree in criminal justice. I’ve applied to hundreds of CJ type jobs since graduating in 2016... and received a handful of interviews. It is absolutely impossible to break into the field. I had to pivot to what I’m doing now.

Im aware that my long term prospects in what I’m doing now probably aren’t great, but it’s been like banging my head against the wall even trying to get a foot in the door to what I really want to do.

I remember suggesting you move up here. The VT State Police are constantly recruiting. 

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7 hours ago, PhineasC said:

It seems like we are talking about two different kids of loyalty.

The kind of situation you are talking about where a Boomer worked somewhere for 30 years in the same exact job role before being unceremoniously dumped without a pension happens all the time... because it isn't 1960 anymore. I never suggest someone stay put forever without moving up the ladder. That's not a good plan. I have this dialog all the time with other business leaders in my industry. "Butt in seat" time is no longer what it once was. You need to shake up your career sometimes or you will be overtaken by someone else. That's part of the price of the expended global job market and free trade everyone wanted. 

That said, if you jump, it needs to be a forward move, not a lateral one. A bunch of lateral moves make you look fickle and unable to cope with stress and conflict at work. It's basically the Tinder dating of employment. Just swipe when you are bored of your job or your coworker is being mean.

There is still a strong market for loyal employees with in-demand skillsets and they very quickly climb the ladder and do well. They don't stagnate, so the example of the guy who spent 30 years putting lids on jars during the third shift only to be fired and replaced with a robot doesn't really apply to them.

I don't disagree that the larger job market is more of a commodity deal. People come and go at will. 

I rose from a firefighter to the Head of Operations of the largest NA museum in the world with multiple ladder steps up. 25 years then boom see ya no severance . My evalutions were always glowing and perfect. The numbers old people game got me and 2 other 25 year plus employees.  Both of whom were top notch people. I wish I worked for Boston Seminole or you. I never saw it coming. Imagine how that feels after literally giving sweat and blood, saving your company millions with energy innovations, preventing loss of business multiple times, responding to emergencies 24/7 365. My loyalty meant nothing.

In retrospect I was naive and had too much faith in an employer who preached loyalty being rewarded. My suggestion to all the young uns. Always always keep your buns in the fire and have a fall back. PS no one wants the olds no matter how much experience you have. Insurance and payroll costs . Ageism is definitely an unreported unrecognized societal norm. 

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I work in a high demand skilled trade and there is still a ton of loyalty in the trades. I have been with my company 12 years. There is such a massive shortage of state licensed electricians, plumbers, hvac, etc. If employees are treated like shit its easy to walk as there are 25 other companies hiring and offering sign on bonuses. My company has to constantly offer better benefits to compete. 

It's like the complete opposite of the corporate office world. 

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17 minutes ago, BrianW said:

I work in a high demand skilled trade and there is still a ton of loyalty in the trades. I have been with my company 12 years. There is such a massive shortage of state licensed electricians, plumbers, hvac, etc. If employees are treated like shit its easy to walk as there are 25 other companies hiring and offering sign on bonuses. My company has to constantly offer better benefits to compete. 

It's like the complete opposite of the corporate office world. 

Absolutely only thing I suggest to you is to eventually get on the management side. Your body won't be able to take the physical beating trades work takes forever. 

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40 minutes ago, BrianW said:

I work in a high demand skilled trade and there is still a ton of loyalty in the trades. I have been with my company 12 years. There is such a massive shortage of state licensed electricians, plumbers, hvac, etc. If employees are treated like shit its easy to walk as there are 25 other companies hiring and offering sign on bonuses. My company has to constantly offer better benefits to compete. 

It's like the complete opposite of the corporate office world. 

Skilled trades are the thing to be in right now for sure. After years of ostracizing carpenters, plumbers, electricians, etc in the 1980s/1990s and telling all the kids back then that they needed to go to college, there is a definite supply shortage of these types of workers and a high demand for them. Especially in a higher educated regions like the greater Boston market or other northeast cities. 

My wife’s younger half-brother lives outside of Philly and he dropped out of high school at 16...then got his now-wife pregnant when he was 18, but went and got his GED and went to trade school to be an electrician. He is now about 25 and makes 6 figures easy. It’s pretty amazing. 

 

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9 hours ago, Whineminster said:

I'm getting my first shot Sunday..........I don't really want to but society forced me to for fear of ostracization.

I think people are bragging that they got their shots but I don’t think many are ostracizing anybody who doesn’t. 
your body your choice!

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23 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Skilled trades are the thing to be in right now for sure. After years of ostracizing carpenters, plumbers, electricians, etc in the 1980s/1990s and telling all the kids back then that they needed to go to college, there is a definite supply shortage of these types of workers and a high demand for them. Especially in a higher educated regions like the greater Boston market or other northeast cities. 

My wife’s younger half-brother lives outside of Philly and he dropped out of high school at 16...then got his now-wife pregnant when he was 18, but went and got his GED and went to trade school to be an electrician. He is now about 25 and makes 6 figures easy. It’s pretty amazing. 

 

My son in law was an apprentice 8 years ago. Now owns his own Plumbing Hvac company as a master plumber. Easily has multi million dollars in accounts and employs 5 . My daughter started an online business which has now included a brick and mortar. Her business is in the half million dollar range and growing in leaps and bounds. She employs 3 people.  They both have no college experience.  Hard work and persistence pay off. I have many friends in the trades including my neighbors who own Electrician companies and a massive landscaping service.  All non college educated. Again its the work you put in and the sacrifices you make. 

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On 4/6/2021 at 6:35 PM, HoarfrostHubb said:

And for those refusing to get the vax (which is fine. I get it) I hope you realize that those of us who are getting vaccinated are helping to end this. 
 

You’re welcome. 

This is what concerns me, the "free rider" effect - those not getting stuck will benefit from those getting stuck as all our lives move towards something resembling normal with herd immunity. It may not be a big deal now because i think there is sufficient interest to get the vaccine to get past this phase and open up fully , but if the threat persists (likely?) I think people will be reluctant to get stuck a 2nd, 3rd (n times -think flu shots), so we loose herd immunity and risk more government and business restrictions. Some may conclude there needs  to be a stick (or carrot) for people to get boosters as needed - the vaccine passport? or maybe something more elegant - UBI?. You can argue the government or businesses are wrong to apply more restrictions, but its the world we live in, not the one we want to live in. I mean no one wants to pay taxes, but we "accept" it to fund public goods i.e. those products that people wouldn't pay for on their own unless required to - this is the "free rider" theory as explained in economic theory. I view the vaccine process as analogous in some ways.

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2 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

I think people are bragging that they got their shots but I don’t think many are ostracizing anybody who doesn’t. 
your body your choice!

Exactly except there is this lingering thoughts in our Govt about vaccine passports. Problem I have is all the vaccines are not approved and only EUA. That is a problem with many. 2nd day Moderna 2nd shot for me and so far so good.

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8 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

I think people are bragging that they got their shots but I don’t think many are ostracizing anybody who doesn’t. 
your body your choice!

Exactly. Herd immunity ultimately ends this. Not a “fake” vaccine. As I always say.. to each their own

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4 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

Exactly. Herd immunity ultimately ends this. Not a “fake” vaccine. As I always say.. to each their own

Fake? Say wut

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6 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

Exactly. Herd immunity ultimately ends this. Not a “fake” vaccine. As I always say.. to each their own

Vaccine is part of herd immunity dude. 

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9 hours ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

I mean, it doesn’t get more millennial than me, I just turned 27.

Ive ended up in blue collar work (nothing wrong with that), and acquired licenses and certifications that make me a decent wage. The problem is, is I’ve pretty much maxed out, and this isn’t whT I want to be doing long term.

I have a bachelors degree in criminal justice. I’ve applied to hundreds of CJ type jobs since graduating in 2016... and received a handful of interviews. It is absolutely impossible to break into the field. I had to pivot to what I’m doing now.

Im aware that my long term prospects in what I’m doing now probably aren’t great, but it’s been like banging my head against the wall even trying to get a foot in the door to what I really want to do.

Like @RUNNAWAYICEBERG said. Keep grinding away. My older brother was in a similar spot.  Similar type job that paid a decent wage, but he maxed out.  He didn’t want to be there long term. So, with two young kids and a wife working full time, he finished his degree at night. He graduated in December, started applying for long term substitute positions. He just passed all of his MTELs, and will likely be offered a full time teaching position in the fall. He loves it. He’s 34 and just is getting to where he wants to be. 

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Just now, Ginx snewx said:

Fake? Say wut

What they’ve come out with in a few short months as you mentioned is not a vaccine in the true sense. There’s a reason why it’s not EUA approved. The long term side effects are greatly unknown . For example Teenage girls .. how will it affect reproduction later in life? Many questions. 

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2 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

What they’ve come out with in a few short months as you mentioned is not a vaccine in the true sense. There’s a reason why it’s not EUA approved. The long term side effects are greatly unknown . For example Teenage girls .. how will it affect reproduction later in life? Many questions. 

It’s literally no different than the potential long term side effects of covid. I find it kind of bizarre that people are petrified of the potential long term effects of the vaccine, but not of actually having COVID.

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1 minute ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

It’s literally no different than the potential long term side effects of covid. I find it kind of bizarre that people are petrified of the potential long term effects of the vaccine, but not of actually having COVID.

I mean lolololol . Come on man. Young people and Covid vs young people and unknowns from a vaccine? 

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12 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

What they’ve come out with in a few short months as you mentioned is not a vaccine in the true sense. There’s a reason why it’s not EUA approved. The long term side effects are greatly unknown . For example Teenage girls .. how will it affect reproduction later in life? Many questions. 

I believe people like @WhitinsvilleWX who have worked in immunology their whole live that the vaccine doesn't have any effect on DNA but rather teaches our immune system to recognize Covid cells and attack them. Knowing biology and how cells work, I have no fears about this vaccine. The scare tactics people use are not based in science. If you could link one proven science paper that changes my thought I would deeply appreciate it. Otherwise its just conjecture and conspiracy theory 

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13 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Vaccine is part of herd immunity dude. 

There is probably no way to ever know if we have reached suggested heard immunity percentages unless there is widespread antibody testing which will probably not happen. 

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7 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

I mean lolololol . Come on man. Young people and Covid vs young people and unknowns from a vaccine? 

I spent 2 days in a Covid ward. What I saw with young people your age and below would scare you. Seemingly very healthy people near death. Yea the odds are low but not zero. You can take your chances but I wouldn't recommend it.

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