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Baroclinic Zone

Fall Banter and General Discussion

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9 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Man @ORH_wxman, I would’ve guessed they’d be good for 120” or so at least.  Hard to imagine 1,500ft getting 85” of snow in Coos County.  

I’d be utterly shocked if that spot got 120”. I could maybe be convinced of 90-100” on the ridge there with mediocre retention. The extra elevation would definitely help some...but it’s still smack in the death triangle between Littleton-Lancaster-Whitefield. 

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3 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah I don’t know the exact number up there. The Lancaster coop averages like 70”. Sometimes coops are too low if they truly only measure once per day at the same exact time. Not sure if Lancaster does or not. I haven’t scrutinized the coop data there very closely.

But based off of snow cover maps and having driven up there frequently, it’s not a whole lot more than that even if it’s wrong. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen bare ground or nearly bare ground there when every other direction was deep snow pack. 

It’s weird that it thaws so much... HIE temps never really stood out to be in a torch way.  Not like say BTV that goes to 40F+ immediately when the wind goes southerly.  I always thought that area was similar to the NEK of VT with great retention regardless of actual snowfall.

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9 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

@ORH_wxman saved me from buying 30 acres in the middle of the woods in Whitefield. Dodged a bullet there as a snow weenie. I would have been sick reading this forum. 

I was really worried when you mentioned that location...but you’re right, for 99.9% of the population it would be a beautiful paradise, but there’s no way I could in good conscience keep silent seeing a fellow snow weenie consider it. 

I felt like all the kids in “The Sandlot” movie when Smalls says, “hey what’s the big deal, I’ll get the ball” while he starts climbing the wall....and they all shout “NOOOOOO!!!!.....” and start sprinting after him. LOL

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14 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

65-70" average in Whitefield? Wow, that seems low, but you would know better than me

ORH was low 60s and now upper 60s average now right?

Well, I know the 3k NAM certainly hates that area. March 93 could be coming up the coast and it would still print out .1-.2" qpf..ha. It does it with every storm. 

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10 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Oh yeah, that’s where the snow snobs in the DC/BAL corridor live. Lording their 35 inch averages over the rest of us!

Please remember that in just a few short weeks when you’re posting magnificent backyard pics of epic snowfall and snow pack, and your fellow forum posters down here in the desert of SNE struggle to produce a 1-3” clipper. 

No mercy :lol: 

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3 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

Please remember that in just a few short weeks when you’re posting magnificent backyard pics of epic snowfall and snow pack, your fellow forum posters down here in the desert of SNE will struggle to produce a 1-3” clipper. 

No mercy :lol: 

And then in no time folks will just start ignoring it, haha.  Eventually someone will say “Isnt there a NNE thread for that stuff?  We don’t need to see Moose Knuckle village with buried evergreens anymore.  No body cares.”

I’ve gotten plenty of that in the past decade :lol:.

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12 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

It’s weird that it thaws so much... HIE temps never really stood out to be in a torch way.  Not like say BTV that goes to 40F+ immediately when the wind goes southerly.  I always thought that area was similar to the NEK of VT with great retention regardless of actual snowfall.

It’s not just the thaws, it’s flurries and 2-5” snows. I couldn’t take that knowing 20 miles East is getting smoked. Yeah it would be wintry compared to here, but yeesh....I’d rather rain than see the atmosphere choke on dendrites while 20 miles away gets 18”.

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3 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

And then in no time folks will just start ignoring it, haha.  Eventually someone will say “Isnt there a NNE thread for that stuff?  We don’t need to see Moose Knuckle village with buried evergreens anymore.  No body cares.”

I’ve gotten plenty of that in the past decade :lol:.

Distraught SNE weenies with rulers in one hand and phones in the other lining up behind Ray to tell the lot of y’all to go to hell. An annual tradition lol.

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3 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

Distraught SNE weenies with rulers in one hand and phones in the other lining up behind Ray to tell the lot of y’all to go to hell. An annual tradition lol.

All worth it for the rare coastal Noreaster :snowing:

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45 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah I don’t know the exact number up there. The Lancaster coop averages like 70”. Sometimes coops are too low if they truly only measure once per day at the same exact time. Not sure if Lancaster does or not. I haven’t scrutinized the coop data there very closely.

But based off of snow cover maps and having driven up there frequently, it’s not a whole lot more than that even if it’s wrong. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen bare ground or nearly bare ground there when every other direction was deep snow pack. 

I drove to Whitefield daily last year and I can confirm that there were plenty of times when we have a foot plus and they had nothing. Literally bare ground. In fact I’ve noticed a few occasions when Littleton had significantly more snowcover. It’s a combination of lack of significant upslope, strong downslope, and poor CAD (although we are even worse on that front at the higher elevations, but we more than make it up in upslope)

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19 minutes ago, WxWatcher007 said:

Distraught SNE weenies with rulers in one hand and phones in the other lining up behind Ray to tell the lot of y’all to go to hell. An annual tradition lol.

I wasn’t going to mention any posters but usually starts there, ha ha.

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8 minutes ago, alex said:

I drove to Whitefield daily last year and I can confirm that there were plenty of times when we have a foot plus and they had nothing. Literally bare ground. In fact I’ve noticed a few occasions when Littleton had significantly more snowcover. It’s a combination of lack of significant upslope, strong downslope, and poor CAD (although we are even worse on that front at the higher elevations, but we more than make it up in upslope)

Yeah even Littleton itself is noticeably better though still a bit snow-holish...and SW Littleton is actually pretty good and down toward Franconia. I’m sure you’ve noticed driving around...it obviously keeps increasing rapidly as you head down toward Franconia Notch and Cannon Mountain.

I think the lack of precip is as much to blame or even more so than not holding CAD. Downslope drying in between snowstorms probably helps sublimate the light snows they get more than other areas too...esp on a south or southwest wind.  It’s like 2 or 3 factors all conspiring to make them a local minimum. 

I don’t want to make it sound like they are the Mid-Atlantic....it’s just a very acute local minimum. They still get plenty of light snows from clippers, windex events, and probably even some favorable blocked upslope setups...and even do fine on southwest flow event moderate synoptic snows, but they really struggle on bigger setups and have trouble holding their temps on unfavorable setups compared to other areas nears them. 

 

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Just now, dendrite said:

If you like radiating and a short growing season HIE is for you though.

Yeah that whole valley floor probably radiates like the moon...esp with fresh snow cover. Probably some -35 to -40ish temps in the coldest winters. Maybe even colder in the local Maple Hollows of the area. :lol:

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41 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

It’s not just the thaws, it’s flurries and 2-5” snows. I couldn’t take that knowing 20 miles East is getting smoked. Yeah it would be wintry compared to here, but yeesh....I’d rather rain than see the atmosphere choke on dendrites while 20 miles away gets 18”.

Sounds like my house to the picnic tables and it’s only 5 miles as crow flies.  But it’s never bothered me at all... that’s where I need my snow, under my skis, ha.  I certainly would never prefer rain and will take 5” all day long while the picnic tables pile up the pow.  But it’s still pretty damn wintry regardless and we don’t get screwed in synoptic events, I think that would hurt more.

It also helps when you spend 60+ hours a week and all free time up in that snow... it’s sort of like having two homes, one is snowier than the other lol.

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Just now, powderfreak said:

Sounds like my house to the picnic tables and it’s only 5 miles as crow flies.  But it’s never bothered me at all... that’s where I need my snow, under my skis, ha.  I certainly would never prefer rain and will take 5” all day long while the picnic tables pile up the pow.

It also helps when you spend 60+ hours a week and all free time up in that snow... it’s sort of like having two homes, one is snowier than the other lol.

Yeah it would probably drive you nuts if you didn’t spend all that time up there, but in your situation it’s like two residences. 

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6 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah that whole valley floor probably radiates like the moon...esp with fresh snow cover. Probably some -35 to -40ish temps in the coldest winters. Maybe even colder in the local Maple Hollows of the area. :lol:

-36 was the coldest I’ve seen since moving here. It hurts

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9 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah it would probably drive you nuts if you didn’t spend all that time up there, but in your situation it’s like two residences. 

Yeah all daylight hours in one spot, leave home in the dark and come home in the dark, ha.  Most of my daytime weather watching is in a very snowy climate.  Plus we do actually do well in some events and don’t get shafted in synoptic storms... in fact any synoptic storm with SE or East low level flow will jack this side.  Liquid equivalent wise we do decent.

The western slope gets the fluffy upslope and adds up inches, but then you get a 1” QPF synoptic storm and that west side gets 0.40”.  That’s more like HIE probably.  I think it would really bother me to get shafted in synoptic region wide events more than getting 5” vs 12” in the fluffers.   Then you have the J.Spin’s and Phin who do both well...plus obviously my work.

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10 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah all daylight hours in one spot, leave home in the dark and come home in the dark, ha.  Most of my daytime weather watching is in a very snowy climate.  Plus we do actually do well in some events and don’t get shafted in synoptic storms... in fact any synoptic storm with SE or East low level flow will jack this side.  Liquid equivalent wise we do decent.

The western slope gets the fluffy upslope and adds up inches, but then you get a 1” QPF synoptic storm and that west side gets 0.40”.  That’s more like HIE probably.  I think it would really bother me to get shafted in synoptic region wide events more than getting 5” vs 12” in the fluffers.   Then you have the J.Spin’s and Phin who do both well...plus obviously my work.

You’re in a good spot. Decent CAD and still do well in synoptic events and catch upslope at the same time. You live in a good spot. I know Jspin is probably the ultimate weenie spot that acts like it’s the base of Stowe, but consider yourself fortunate. 

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33 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Sounds like my house to the picnic tables and it’s only 5 miles as crow flies.  But it’s never bothered me at all... that’s where I need my snow, under my skis, ha.  I certainly would never prefer rain and will take 5” all day long while the picnic tables pile up the pow.  But it’s still pretty damn wintry regardless and we don’t get screwed in synoptic events, I think that would hurt more.

It also helps when you spend 60+ hours a week and all free time up in that snow... it’s sort of like having two homes, one is snowier than the other lol.

I totally get that.  For years I spent all the daylight hours when I was in CT in the office in Hartford. And I rarely looked out the window there and never went outside  I never saw my CT house in daylight except occasional mornings all winter.  But then I would spend Thursday-Monday at Pico at 2,000 feet with lots of time outside and near windows during daylight in a big snow area. I love snow. I’m a total snow weenie.  But I seriously felt like it really did not mater whether It snowed at my house in CT.  I’m my brain I lived in deep snow country.  That was my native culture. Living in the northern Greens would be even better of course.  

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29 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

You’re in a good spot. Decent CAD and still do well in synoptic events and catch upslope at the same time. You live in a good spot. I know Jspin is probably the ultimate weenie spot that acts like it’s the base of Stowe, but consider yourself fortunate. 

Yeah certainly not suffering and definitely not looking for sympathy in this forum lol... getting 100” or more is still pretty snowy.  There’s also the half a year it’s not snowing to consider, ha.  I always think about it, but I’m not ready to give up the social aspect of living in the middle of a ski town (well, once COVID is done it’ll ramp back up) and having so much stuff within walking distance.  

Moving to a place that gets a similar climo to the office at work would (short of winning the lottery and just moving up to a 2-3 million place) would likely involve living somewhere with a 45 minute drive to get to work vs. the 7 minutes now.  I guess that’s what I am thinking instead of burning the place down for getting less snow on NW winds than the jackpot zone, lol.  Plenty close for weenie drives in elevation events.

I do think by the time I’m 50 I will want to maybe head out to a more recluse high el spot; maybe then it’ll be time to cash in on 180” a year in the yard.  For now I’ll settle with checking the snow boards at 1,500ft and 3,000ft and living the daytimes in that snowfall.

I am really stoked for Phin this year though, dude worked hard and toiled in a Maryland climate for a long time... cashed in on the hard work building a company and found a spot.  That’s the American snow weenie dream.

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I'm going to do some time in Stowe at some point.  Freak needs to get a real estate license so I can give him some business. 

I was in LA for 15 years and started interviewing for jobs on the east coast.  The first one was DC and my perspective was it snowed plenty considering where my prior 15 years were.  But the concept of upslope and synoptic snow on so many days is really appealing to me.  Plus summers are really nice.  Damn-8 more work days-and I'm waiting for HR to mess this up......gotta baby sit every process.  Taxes in VT are really high though.  Here, a big chunk of my retirement income is exempt from state income taxes and property taxes in my town are not bad at all.

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