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2 hours ago, Hoosier said:

This is interesting.  It says that exposure to the spike protein, not even the virus itself, was enough to cause genetic changes in airway cells.  Don't the vaccines train the body to recognize the covid spike protein?  If so, then why doesn't the vaccine cause some of these long hauler symptoms?  I don't have any formal medical background and I'm sure this can be easily explained to a layman like me, but it's something I thought of when I first read it.

 

Gene changes might explain long-haul COVID-19 symptoms

"We found that exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein alone was enough to change baseline gene expression in airway cells," said Nicholas Evans, a master's student in the laboratory of Sharilyn Almodovar, Ph.D., at the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. "This suggests that symptoms seen in patients may initially result from the spike protein interacting with the cells directly."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-04-gene-long-haul-covid-symptoms.html

In this study there is exposure of lung cells in a petri dish to the spike protein. With the mrna vaccine, expression of the spike protein is induced in cells in the arm, and in the virus vector vaccines, the spike protein is also only in the muscle in the arm. The immune response then kicks in based on these foreign proteins in the arm. The theory from this paper is that the spike protein itself, not the immune response to the spike protein may contribute to the long term symptoms by affecting gene expression in cells exposed to purified spike protein. The vaccine doesn't expose lung cells to the spike protein, thus infection would cause these problems  because lots of lung cells are exposed to the spike protein but not vaccination. This is all very theoretical though, there is not translational research to say whether or not the changes seen in this in vitro study would have the effects in vivo.

 

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12 minutes ago, mattb65 said:

In this study there is exposure of lung cells in a petri dish to the spike protein. With the mrna vaccine, expression of the spike protein is induced in cells in the arm, and in the virus vector vaccines, the spike protein is also only in the muscle in the arm. The immune response then kicks in based on these foreign proteins in the arm. The theory from this paper is that the spike protein itself, not the immune response to the spike protein may contribute to the long term symptoms by affecting gene expression in cells exposed to purified spike protein. The vaccine doesn't expose lung cells to the spike protein, thus infection would cause these problems  because lots of lung cells are exposed to the spike protein but not vaccination. This is all very theoretical though, they're is not translational research to say whether or not the changes seen in this in vitro study would have the effects in vivo.

 

You explained it well.  Thanks!

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The pill in trial from Pfizer sounds promising.  Hopefully it pans out.  Would be nice to have another tool (and a simple one at that) in combatting the virus to address the breakthrough infections and infections in people who didn't get the vaccine.  I'd like to think there would be less hesitancy in popping a pill compared to getting a vaccine.  That is a more familiar, every day type of thing to people, even though pills can come with a ton of side effects (cue one of those commercials with a list of every possible side effect lol)

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I made my appointment a few weeks ago for shot #1 and couldn't get in until the middle of May.  But I've heard multiple stories from people who just scheduled one in the past week or so and got in within 3-5 days.  I bet I could cancel mine, reschedule and get in very quickly.  Thinking about doing that but may just wait until my originally scheduled appt.  Part of me likes having more people I know in my age group go before me just to see what kind of side effects they may have.  Plus I don't feel any more at risk from covid than I did a month ago.  People around here are still very good with masking in public even after the state mask mandate ended.

Almost nobody I know in my age group has received both doses yet, so it will be interesting to see how the second dose goes for them.  I know people from 20-85 years old who have been vaccinated and am sort of keeping a mental database of their side effects.  My unofficial observations have been that the younger folks tended to have a bit more side effects but there are exceptions to that and again, almost nobody I know who is around my age has gotten both doses yet.

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1 hour ago, Hoosier said:

I made my appointment a few weeks ago for shot #1 and couldn't get in until the middle of May.  But I've heard multiple stories from people who just scheduled one in the past week or so and got in within 3-5 days.  I bet I could cancel mine, reschedule and get in very quickly.  Thinking about doing that but may just wait until my originally scheduled appt.  Part of me likes having more people I know in my age group go before me just to see what kind of side effects they may have.  Plus I don't feel any more at risk from covid than I did a month ago.  People around here are still very good with masking in public even after the state mask mandate ended.

Almost nobody I know in my age group has received both doses yet, so it will be interesting to see how the second dose goes for them.  I know people from 20-85 years old who have been vaccinated and am sort of keeping a mental database of their side effects.  My unofficial observations have been that the younger folks tended to have a bit more side effects but there are exceptions to that and again, almost nobody I know who is around my age has gotten both doses yet.

That's so weird there. You can walk to almost any doctors office or clinic here and get your shot tomorrow if you're 16+ in NYS.

I've known many people my age who've gotten it with no issues at all. It seems those that get sick are like 10%, not the 90% who have little to no symptoms. It's more prevalent with shot #2.

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Walk in appointments are starting to be pretty common around here also.  Side effects so far have been minimal for most but did have one co-worker who mentioned having a fever and chills starting about 12 hours after the shot for about 10 hours or so.

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8 hours ago, Hoosier said:

I made my appointment a few weeks ago for shot #1 and couldn't get in until the middle of May.  But I've heard multiple stories from people who just scheduled one in the past week or so and got in within 3-5 days.  I bet I could cancel mine, reschedule and get in very quickly.  Thinking about doing that but may just wait until my originally scheduled appt.  Part of me likes having more people I know in my age group go before me just to see what kind of side effects they may have.  Plus I don't feel any more at risk from covid than I did a month ago.  People around here are still very good with masking in public even after the state mask mandate ended.

Almost nobody I know in my age group has received both doses yet, so it will be interesting to see how the second dose goes for them.  I know people from 20-85 years old who have been vaccinated and am sort of keeping a mental database of their side effects.  My unofficial observations have been that the younger folks tended to have a bit more side effects but there are exceptions to that and again, almost nobody I know who is around my age has gotten both doses yet.

II (59) was scheduled normally but also was on a wait list for left over doses.  I got called early and since I was already in the system, they could easily adjust my appointment.  I hear others doing walk-in appointments ahead of their schedule appointments and they can adjust on the fly.  I had only a very slight reaction (tired, felt feverish) to the first Pfizer shot and none to the second.  Of the two dozen folks I work or talk with daily, only two had strong reaction.  Both were around 40ish and felt like a bad case of flu but they both recovered in 24 hours.  Neither had have COVID.   

Besides working daily in K-12 with in person learning since August, I've been photographing indoor percussion, indoor marching, and dance competitions in Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio.  I see mostly masking but also laugh at some of the restrictions.  This past weekend in Cleveland, chairs were spaced 6 feet apart.  All spectators were to wear a mask and sit six feet apart.  This included families living in the same house and that traveled in the same car to the event.  Needless to say, a lot of chairs were moved.  The venue also require mandatory temperature checks for anyone coming into the convention center.  Well anyone when that person was on duty.  If you were in the first block before their shift, you were allowed to enter without any a temperature check.  Chairs also had to be realigned to the six feet spacing requirement and sprayed with a disinfectant between blocks unless we were running behind and there wasn't time.

My hotel had disabled by in room refrigerator and removed the microwave for my COVID protection.  The hotel had no bellman or bellman carts for my COVID safety.  Someone could valet park my car but not go get the car.  Talk about unscientific and arbitrary rules. 

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It has been almost 24 hours since my second Pfizer shot.  At most, I felt a tiny bit achy and cold late last night... really nothing.  Both shots gave me some soreness in my upper arm.

It is pretty much walk-in appointments around here now as well.

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36 minutes ago, hawkeye_wx said:

It has been almost 24 hours since my second Pfizer shot.  At most, I felt a tiny bit achy and cold late last night... really nothing.  Both shots gave me some of soreness in my upper arm.

It is pretty much walk-in appointments around here now as well.

I get my 2nd Saturday.  For the first shot I was just fatigued for 4-5 days, no other issues. The only person I know that had bad side effects was my mother in law. She was pretty much bed ridden for 3 days with a high fever/chills. She also doesn't drink enough water, and is prone to kidney stones. There seems to be a strong coorelation between water/side effects. 

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2 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I get my 2nd Saturday.  For the first shot I was just fatigued for 4-5 days, no other issues. The only person I know that had bad side effects was my mother in law. She was pretty much bed ridden for 3 years with a high fever/chills. She also doesn't drink enough water, and is prone to kidney stones. There seems to be a strong coorelation between water/side effects. 

I drank a lot of water yesterday.

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Nationwide numbers continue to be encouraging. No reason to believe cases wont continue to drop now as we head into Spring. Daily deaths should begin dropping noticeably in 1-2 weeks (its been stuck in the 700-750/day range for a while). Btw, the spring wave in Michigan has enough data to show the clear benefits of vaccinations. Both winter and spring waves peaked at about the same daily case load and hospitalizations, yet daily deaths were 125/day in December vs 70/day now. (1.5% vs 0.9% CFR). 

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2 hours ago, KokomoWX said:

Biden and the CDC has really missed the mark on vaccines.  I'm pretty sure they would send the wrong message about Evian bottled water to people dying of thirst in the dessert.  

NST.png

I think it's a perception thing.  Unless you always have a bar on the screen that says everyone in attendance has been vaccinated, people may have taken it the wrong way if they saw a packed crowd if all of Congress attended.

I do think there has been an abundance of caution in the guidelines, but we are still in this somewhat tricky zone in which a lot of the US population has not been vaccinated and certainly doesn't have the max protection from the vaccines yet.

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Interesting point made in this article.  Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to get an antibody test after the vaccine to make sure the vaccine took, especially if you're older/compromised.  This guy had chronic leukemia.

'BREAKTHROUGH' COVID DEATH: FULLY-VACCINATED FLOSSMOOR MAN, 75, DIES FROM VIRUS A MONTH AFTER 2ND VACCINE DOSE

 

CHICAGO (WLS) -- Illinois public health officials began releasing data Wednesday on what it calls "breakthrough" COVID-19 cases, which involve fully-vaccinated people who still get the virus - and sometimes die.

A 75-year-old south suburban Flossmoor man is one such case. More than two weeks after his second vaccine dose, Alan Sporn, felt free.
 

"It was a Saturday, and he said instead of getting together for dinner tonight, kids, I'm going to meet you guys for lunch because I'm going out with my friends tonight to celebrate that we made it through this year," said Bonnie Sporn, his daughter.

But days later, one of his dinner mates tested positive for COVID-19, and so did Sporn. The 75-year-old grandfather of four died from the virus a month after receiving his second shot.

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/breakthrough-covid-after-vaccine-death-il/10558121/

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This is an interesting study on how well natural infection induced immunity protects against reinfection.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00158-2/fulltext

It was prospective and looked at usmc recruits.

10% of those with antibodies got infected and roughly 50% of those without antibodies got infected over a 6 week period.

Based on this study,  evidence of prior infection provided about an 80% protection. The reinfected individuals also had a lower viral load so probably less severe illness compared to the control group. Higher antibody levels also provided more protection.

The study population was mostly young males so it may not necessarily apply to other ages/genders. Still interesting. Though not directly tested in the study,  I think it implies that the mrna vaccine provide more protection against infection than natural immunity from prior infection. 

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1 hour ago, winterwx21 said:

Here in NJ the transmission rate has fallen to 0.63, the lowest it has been during the entire pandemic. Great to see the virus in rapid decline now.

Interesting to see the trends by region.  The Northeast has dropped quite a bit in the past 2-4 weeks, but if you go westward through the northern states in the Midwest/Plains/Northwest, the drops are not as significant (MI has dropped a lot, but they were a bit of an oddball with such a big rise prior to that).  

In fact, yesterday and today are our 2 highest case numbers in Indiana in the past ~10 weeks.

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Variant info has now been added to the Indiana state dashboard.  The raw numbers of variant cases are not going to be accurate since only a portion of virus samples are genetically sequenced, but the percentage breakdown should be a better indicator.  Of the identified variant cases, about 3/4 of those are the UK variant, with the rest being the California, Brazil and South Africa variants.

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23 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Interesting to see the trends by region.  The Northeast has dropped quite a bit in the past 2-4 weeks, but if you go westward through the northern states in the Midwest/Plains/Northwest, the drops are not as significant (MI has dropped a lot, but they were a bit of an oddball with such a big rise prior to that).  

In fact, yesterday and today are our 2 highest case numbers in Indiana in the past ~10 weeks.

I know New Jersey has one of the best vaccination rates. Right now we have 44% fully vaccinated and 61% have gotten one dose. I'm sure that's the biggest reason why we're seeing a major Covid decline here now.

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3 minutes ago, winterwx21 said:

I know New Jersey has one of the best vaccination rates. Right now we have 44% fully vaccinated and 61% have gotten one dose. I'm sure that's the biggest reason why we're seeing a major Covid decline here now.

Hoping 60% with at least one shot maybe a target number in seeing significant case decline. IL still at only 46% with at least one shot

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As time goes on the total % vaccinated is becoming more and more similar to the 2020 election map, pretty remarkable,  the consequences to the areas that have bought into the lies about the vaccines will probably be seen next fall and winter. I wonder if we see the per capita new infections and deaths start to look the same. 

 

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