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Fall 2017 Model Mehham


Go Kart Mozart

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2 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

Or it can cause cutters.

salient point ...

-EPO is the cold loading, a necessity for snow enthusiasts ...particularly earlier in the season when the 'local factory' is still sort of closed for production.   But, as you say, that's a double edged sword, because the wave lengths can often crinkle up and pack the cold back west. 

However, even in that scenario, you're doing better than not having one at all; because obviously ( you know this stuff..just sayn) the cold is in reach given even giga motions in the pattern.  Sometimes -EPO will in fact start off as an outside slider out west... If one cares to look at some of the K.U. examples, the outside slider might settle into the SW, then...a week later gets ejected as a southern stream wave.  When that happens you keep eyes open because the downstream confluence from that may have a surface pp anomaly near the Lakes/Ontario...

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41 minutes ago, Go Kart Mozart said:

Every teleconnection has its screw potential; +pna can leave us dry as a bone, -nao can make D.C. happy etc etc, but all things considered, I'll take my chances with a -epo as a building block.

You are better off with a +PNA when you consider the combo of snow and cold. However, a properly placed -EPO ridge will serve you well.

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30 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

salient point ...

-EPO is the cold loading, a necessity for snow enthusiasts ...particularly earlier in the season when the 'local factory' is still sort of closed for production.   But, as you say, that's a double edged sword, because the wave lengths can often crinkle up and pack the cold back west. 

However, even in that scenario, you're doing better than not having one at all; because obviously ( you know this stuff..just sayn) the cold is in reach given even giga motions in the pattern.  Sometimes -EPO will in fact start off as an outside slider out west... If one cares to look at some of the K.U. examples, the outside slider might settle into the SW, then...a week later gets ejected as a southern stream wave.  When that happens you keep eyes open because the downstream confluence from that may have a surface pp anomaly near the Lakes/Ontario...

I mean winter 13-14 was a great example of a nicely placed -EPO and even +NAO of all things. The problem with the -EPO s that the flow tends to be "ruler" flow. IOW, it's fast with not much room to amplify. I know you are big on this, but just saying for the people.

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3 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

I mean winter 13-14 was a great example of a nicely placed -EPO and even +NAO of all things. The problem with the -EPO s that the flow tends to be "ruler" flow. IOW, it's fast with not much room to amplify. I know you are big on this, but just saying for the people.

Depends on the exact location and strength of the ridge, too......Feb 2015 was primarily EPO driven....modest PNA.

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1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

I mean winter 13-14 was a great example of a nicely placed -EPO and even +NAO of all things. The problem with the -EPO s that the flow tends to be "ruler" flow. IOW, it's fast with not much room to amplify. I know you are big on this, but just saying for the people.

The people listen.

Why does -epo tend to be fast flow though? isn’t the nao more of an indicator whether the flow slows or not? 

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1 minute ago, USCAPEWEATHERAF said:

The models have agreement on the overall location of the Polar Vortex being on our side of the hemisphere, plus they try to engage it in the overall long term trough position over the central and eastern USA.

Like when and what model?

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9 minutes ago, USCAPEWEATHERAF said:

Look at the consensus Jerry, they have the anomalies deeper and colder over Canada on our side of the hemisphere throughout their forecasts, just positioning is off a little with little continuity 

That’s not what you originally said James.  You talked about the location of the polar vortex.  Not much sign of that to me just yet.

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Just now, weathafella said:

That’s not what you originally said James.  You talked about the location of the polar vortex.  Not much sign of that to me just yet.

Sorry Jerry I misspoke again, man I am doing that a lot lately, the models are showing that the polar vortex mean position is over northern Canada on our side of the hemisphere, eventually as we get closer to winter months we should have that polar vortex drop more often than not into the US during -AO periods, depending upon the NAO and PNA indices and there signs will determine what kind of winter we have.

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7 hours ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

The people listen.

Why does -epo tend to be fast flow though? isn’t the nao more of an indicator whether the flow slows or not? 

It can compress and overwhelm the flow. So you end up getting a rather progressive jetstream. Plus, as Ray said...if you have no blocking...even more of a propensity for ruler flow. I mean don't get me wrong...it supplies cold...but it comes with a few caveats.

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4 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

How is that typical Nina? Doesn’t typical Nina feature early season cold 

Yeah, and there's a lot of it there...it's just northwest of us right now...but as you lengthen the wavelengths, we'd probably get a chunk of that bleeding over the top.

But essentially...classic Nina is Aleutian ridge and PAC NW trough...we are often the battle ground up here. The depth of western troughing and also the AO/NAO will play a role too in how far southeast the cold gets.

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12 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

Yeah, and there's a lot of it there...it's just northwest of us right now...but as you lengthen the wavelengths, we'd probably get a chunk of that bleeding over the top.

But essentially...classic Nina is Aleutian ridge and PAC NW trough...we are often the battle ground up here. The depth of western troughing and also the AO/NAO will play a role too in how far southeast the cold gets.

And it's already making charges SE on the models from time to time. People need to remember the cold can be relatively shallow. The pretty colors at 500mb won't always tell the story. 

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