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February 16-17 Storm Threat


WxUSAF

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Upper low/energy over the Baja, upper jet energy near pac NW.

 

Thanks.  So when people are saying that the UKMET and Euro are amplifying the first wave, they're talking about the energy near the pacific NW?  It's not clear to me which of those are "first" -- in some runs, it looks like they phase.

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Sorry to keep on this, but we're between model runs so I hope I'm not bothering anyone.  Looking at the maps a little earlier in the run, I think the "first wave" becomes more obvious.  Is it the energy near the border of Utah and Wyoming?

 

Nupo7Ha.png

 

If so, from what I understand the Euro and UKMET have been transferring more energy to that initial wave, which then races ahead and hits us earlier.  The GFS has been squashing that wave and transferring energy to the second wave which hits us later.  The difference in timing has a lot to do with the difference in tracks / outcomes.

 

If this is the case, then I think something like the Euro / UKMET solution is more likely.  They have the highest verification scores at this range, and over the last three runs it looks like the wave I show above has become a little more amped and started digging a little more SW on the GFS.

 

FWIW, the CMC ensembles are mostly to the east of the control run, which is not great news.  But we're in the range in which the op runs are probably a little more useful than the ensembles, and if the CMC op run has the wrong idea then the ensembles likely do as well.

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I was just thinking in terms of not getting shut out that first wave would be fine. I'm ok with a few inches, but it would be difficult to get more than a couple inches from the first wave up here. I know you definitely would prefer the bigger hit in which I definitely agree we need the second wave to amplify for us to have a chance at 6+.

 

I am a bit paranoid that we will have nothing on the ground come midweek when the next arctic shot invades. That is mostly why I would settle for the first wave.

to me the difference between nothing and 2-3" is insignificant.  Now if I could get 4+ then I am interested.  Tired of these snows that do not even cover the grass completely and then blow into piles the next day and leave the ground barren. 

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to me the difference between nothing and 2-3" is insignificant.  Now if I could get 4+ then I am interested.  Tired of these snows that do not even cover the grass completely and then blow into piles the next day and leave the ground barren. 

 

Just exactly how many posts do you plan on dedicating to letting us know that a several inch snowfall, or a bigger snowfall that flips is a complete waste of your time?

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to me the difference between nothing and 2-3" is insignificant.  Now if I could get 4+ then I am interested.  Tired of these snows that do not even cover the grass completely and then blow into piles the next day and leave the ground barren.

Probably because you are in Manchester...and life is good there for snow...in my neck of the woods 2-3'inches is time for celebration
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Could someone please explain how to tell the two waves apart?  I've been looking at 500mb and surface maps, but I'm not sure what I should be looking at.  Is the first wave that little blip over Arkansas?

 

 

The reason you can't easily see the lead wave on the h5 is it is mostly a surface feature and is running way out ahead of the h5 trough and energy.  That is also why it is limited IMO to how much potential it really has.  Its not going to amp up much and probably be more sheared out as it slides east.  The second wave has the upper support but if too much energy escapes east with the initial wave at the surface it might not leave anything at the surface for the h5 vort to phase with.  That is our problem.  The H5 actually looks ok but the models are running away at the surface and leaving nothing for the northern stream to deal with. 

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to me the difference between nothing and 2-3" is insignificant.  Now if I could get 4+ then I am interested.  Tired of these snows that do not even cover the grass completely and then blow into piles the next day and leave the ground barren. 

 

2-3" may not be a whole lot but IMO any accumulating snow will make these Arctic blasts a lot more fun.

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Just exactly how many posts do you plan on dedicating to letting us know that a several inch snowfall, or a bigger snowfall that flips is a complete waste of your time?

 

 

Probably because you are in Manchester...and life is good there for snow...in my neck of the woods 2-3'inches is time for celebration

I fullly admit I have some kind of sick problem, but I could not live in DC for the simple reason that I would be totally and completely miserable almost every winter there.  They can go several years between 6"+ events and for whatever reason smaller snows just do not excite me.  I dont need 30" in a winter to be happy, but I need at least one period of a few days or more when I have enough snow to totally cover the ground.  It makes me happy...I dont know why.  Small snows leave me feeling disappointed that it wasn't more.  If anything I would rather a total miss then another 3" snow because I get my hopes up that perhaps it will turn into more then when it doesnt I am let down.  When it just misses totally I accept it and move on.  I am NOT justifying my point of view, there is probably something wrong with me, and it sets me up to be unhappy more then I should be over frozen water falling from the sky, but I am honest about it.  I wish I could have your view I would be much better off. 

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Any snow that's hides the grass and is still there 24 hours later is good snow.

I agree with this...but for whatever reason people up here let their grass grow really long...I am not kidding...I get 3" and it doesnt even cover the grass up here.  Plus if its dry snow, the wind up here being crazy behind these things just blows it all into piles along the sides of  buildings. 

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The reason you can't easily see the lead wave on the h5 is it is mostly a surface feature and is running way out ahead of the h5 trough and energy.  That is also why it is limited IMO to how much potential it really has.  Its not going to amp up much and probably be more sheared out as it slides east.  The second wave has the upper support but if too much energy escapes east with the initial wave at the surface it might not leave anything at the surface for the h5 vort to phase with.  That is our problem.  The H5 actually looks ok but the models are running away at the surface and leaving nothing for the northern stream to deal with. 

 

Thanks.  I think this wave does show up on the H5 maps earlier in the runs (see my other post above).  All models seem to be amplifying this wave and pulling it further southwest (towards the Baja low) with recent runs.  I wonder what would happen if that trend continues.  It might show up on the Euro ensembles.

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So the GFS and GGEM focus on the second wave.  The UK and Euro on the first.  There is more risk with the second, but I have a feeling that IF, and its a big IF, the GFS is correct in the second wave being the main player, that it will trend more amplified and be a hit.  But if the Euro and UK are correct that the lead wave is the main player it will trend south and be a miss.  I think it runs out ahead of the trough and is running into a suppressive flow.  I have no idea which wave is likely to be dominant but thats just my gut at this point.  I am rooting for the second.  I think models will want to suppress that now but that is the one more likely to trend north. 

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