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Model Discussion for Late January into February


ORH_wxman

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? I've got close to 2' on the ground and have had snow cover since Thanksgiving. We may not have been in the bullseye on this one but it has been a good winter so far.

That doesn't mean it's terrible, or even subnormal west. All that implies is that I think the largest surplus of snowfall relative to average will be east by the end of the year. There is nothing subjective about that, it's an entirely objective postulation, thus how anyone "feels" about the character of their winter simply isn't germane.
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That doesn't mean it's terrible, or even subnormal west. All that implies is that I think the largest surplus of snowfall relative to average will be east by the end of the year. There is nothing subjective about that, it's an entirely objective postulation, thus how anyone "feels" about the character of their winter simply isn't germane.

I have little doubt that E NE will be king. He'll I can see you guys picking up another foot by Monday night.

With 25" + I'm slightly under halfway to climo (55-60") imby at the end of January. It's just been done though nickels and dimes. I'm hoping Monday trends toward a warning criteria event out here, the last one was 8 weeks ago.

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That doesn't mean it's terrible, or even subnormal west. All that implies is that I think the largest surplus of snowfall relative to average will be east by the end of the year. There is nothing subjective about that, it's an entirely objective postulation, thus how anyone "feels" about the character of their winter simply isn't germane.

Well naturally the lower snowfall areas in the East always have a better chance with 1 or 2 big storms. Relative to normal I've never seen anything more than 125% of normal, and nothing less than 75% of normal. Of course the places that have lower averages will easily be able to best it relative to normal.

Even in the uber-historic winters in the mountains like 2000-2001 you might get to 140% of normal...BOS and PWM can do that with a favorable month of storms among a good season.

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Its going to be an eastern NE winter.....accept that, and be at peace with it.

I think if you put" relative to average" in the original post there would have been no "mis understandings"

But ya , not going there yet. If there was a -NAO in teleconnections i would be on board. Otherwise it sounds like a post from KEV based on post storm "euphoria"

Im not sure the % above normal one needs to classify as a certain regions winter but heres to hoping for NE mass

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Just use standard devs or percentile and not percent above normal...standard dev normalizes things so percent above above average can be discarded as it is not homogenous for comparing areas.

Do know any any sites out of curiosity where you could find the SD for COOP or first order station snowfall? I'm not sure I've ever seen that listed on any climo stats.

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Do know any any sites out of curiosity where you could find the SD for COOP or first order station snowfall? I'm not sure I've ever seen that listed on any climo stats.

 

I don't think so...WRCC has it but the data on there isn't all complete, though for the main sites it should be close. I usually just throw the seasonal totals into excel and then you can calculate all the percentiles and standard devs...pretty easy.

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Just use standard devs or percentile and not percent above normal...standard dev normalizes things so percent above above average can be discarded as it is not homogenous for comparing areas.

Great point.

I think when all is said and done, snowfall for locales located in eastern NE will generally have a greater SD, and thus occupt higher percentiles than will area to the west.

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If we are gonna be way above avg relative to normal, I would like to see a -NAO and I don't see that. We are gonna have to rely on the Pacific which we all know can waver. We should bow down to the pacific because we pulled this storm out of our behinds in a way. Cohen isn't looking that hot right now.

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If we are gonna be way above avg relative to normal, I would like to see a -NAO and I don't see that. We are gonna have to rely on the Pacific which we all know can waver. We should bow down to the pacific because we pulled this storm out of our behinds in a way. Cohen isn't looking that hot right now.

I have preached transient blocks are more information than NAO, just get us the cold and will have sh it happens.
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If we are gonna be way above avg relative to normal, I would like to see a -NAO and I don't see that. We are gonna have to rely on the Pacific which we all know can waver. We should bow down to the pacific because we pulled this storm out of our behinds in a way. Cohen isn't looking that hot right now.

Yea, that is the one caveat....I keep saying that I ultimately expect it, but alas....no signs as of yet.

I may end up wrong if that doesn't happen.

So be it....

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I have preached transient blocks are more information than NAO, just get us the cold and will have sh it happens.

Oh for sure transient blocks can happen. My point is this storm doesn't change my opinion. If it were 50 miles east, I bet some wouldn't feel as euphoric. We absolutely cannot have the Pacific crap the bed.

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Again, feelings, emotons, win, lose....I wasn't speaking to any of that.

I made a simple, scientific prediction, which as Will pointed out, could have certainly been articulated better.

That is my fault. I didn't mean to start a pissing contest.

I think you may be right, especially the second half of the winter. And sorry I have a pet peeve with the percent of normal thing just because of how it works relative to your average. I get just as bent when I see those seasonal forecasts for 150-200% of normal...which is pretty much all-time and then some.

The first half of winter definitely seemed to favor W/NW New England to some extent. We had multiple paste bombs where it rained in the east, and a foot of Thanksgiving snow amongst countless 1-5" events. I've had three solid warning snows so far when last year to date had zero.

But this is now a different pattern it seems so in the end you could very well be right.

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I think you may be right, especially the second half of the winter. And sorry I have a pet peeve with the percent of normal thing just because of how it works relative to your average. I get just as bent when I see those seasonal forecasts for 150-200% of normal...which is pretty much all-time and then some.

The first half of winter definitely seemed to favor W/NW New England to some extent. We had multiple paste bombs where it rained in the east, and a foot of Thanksgiving snow. I've had three solid warning snows so far when last year to date had zero.

But this is now a different pattern it seems so in the end you could very well be right.

Yea, my bad.

Like I said, I didn't articulate that well....anything mathematical takes me out of my comfrot zone...numbers, terminology, whatever...  :lol:

 

I agree regaridng percent above normal....not a viable metric to use when comparing different areas......especially when climo for the respective areas is significantly different.

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Oh for sure transient blocks can happen. My point is this storm doesn't change my opinion. If it were 50 miles east, I bet some wouldn't feel as euphoric. We absolutely cannot have the Pacific crap the bed.

That's exactly how it feels in sw ct. 50 miles made a huge difference. So relying on well timed transient blocks, no thanks. We need a great pacific if we want to keep this going without a good Atlantic.

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