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November 2011 Obs/Forecasting Discussion


WxUSAF

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Remember that November 2009 was a torch, and we know how that winter turned out. :snowman:

So a mild November doesn't always mean the winter will be mild.

Yeah, and I read DT's post on Facebook yesterday he referenced 11/09 and said "it was a nasty cool autumn"....not here (at BWI, OCT was -.8F and NOV was +3.2F) and we were ground zero for snows that year

IAD and DCA had similar results for those two months

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A comparison to 2001-02 is simply not valid at this time.

The Southeast Ridge and variability is something that should be expected in any La Niña winter, especially in the Mid-Atlantic. I also agree with Zywts that the northern Plains looked warm from the get-go for November. As the -AAM state returns and the RNA pattern solidifies, expect a general retrogression to close out the month. This will lead to a very class cold enso late Nov into early December PNA state.

But I have warned countless times this year that this will not be a normal La Niña December and will at times look like 67/56/54 to some extent. After a +AAM peak, there will likely be another Midwest winter storm in early to mid December followed up by a warm shot (with an El Niño looking temp profile across the CONUS). I don't think the East Coast sees any noteworthy storms this December, but I am nervous saying that (given the last several Decembers have featured something incredible). If the DC area is going to see some snow, it may be in the dec 6-14th period?!?! I have no idea.

I am all about a cold and snowy January though.

I'll take that

I still say the E QBO saves us to get BWI AN snows

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Tuesday may be an active day if we can scour the clouds and the timing of the front is right. Maybe strong winds possible tornado or 2?

looks pretty iffy overall.. not really a tornado setup per se.

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here's a bone

18Z NAM at the end of the run

puts the front through BWI/DCA at 78 hrs so that we're at or below freezing at 850

http://mag.ncep.noaa...el=&imageSize=M

still plenty of moisture behind the 850 line at 78 hrs

http://mag.ncep.noaa...el=&imageSize=M

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/NCOMAGWEB/appcontroller?prevPage=Param&MainPage=indexℑ=&page=Param&cycle=11%2F13%2F2011+18UTC&rname=SFC-LAYER+PARMS&pname=sim_radar&pdesc=&model=NAM&area=NAMER&cat=MODEL+GUIDANCE&fcast=078&areaDesc=North+America+-+US+Canada+and+northern+Mexico&prevArea=NAMER&currKey=model&returnToModel=&imageSize=M

81 and 84 panels show precip falling

but surface temps ain't so hot

this is similar setup to last week when I mentioned that the stubborn SE ridge may give us some rain to snow events

hey, it's something to practice fantasizing about!

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I'll take that

I still say the E QBO saves us to get BWI AN snows

The unique combination of westerlies in the low levels helping to boost the Aleutian High potential (more poleward) and the oncoming easterlies helping to stir the waves up, could set the stage for some good blocking this January.

I think the cold still comes late Nov-early Dec, but it will have the variability theme going through 12/5. It is the 12/5-12/15 period that is cold and it likely snows for us before we break milder again. Toward New Years (in between xmas/new years) the NAO will come back strongly and produce a sustained cold / snowy pattern through most of January. I could see several snow events during that time, including the Mid-Atlantic.

The stratospheric signals like Jan 10-15 but other notable dates are jumping out, too (near New Years and perhaps 2 between jan 20 and feb 5).

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The unique combination of westerlies in the low levels helping to boost the Aleutian High potential (more poleward) and the oncoming easterlies helping to stir the waves up, could set the stage for some good blocking this January.

I think the cold still comes late Nov-early Dec, but it will have the variability theme going through 12/5. It is the 12/5-12/15 period that is cold and it likely snows for us before we break milder again. Toward New Years (in between xmas/new years) the NAO will come back strongly and produce a sustained cold / snowy pattern through most of January. I could see several snow events during that time, including the Mid-Atlantic.

The stratospheric signals like Jan 10-15 but other notable dates are jumping out, too (near New Years and perhaps 2 between jan 20 and feb 5).

Great post. You should post this in some of the other sub forums given many are freaking out!

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The unique combination of westerlies in the low levels helping to boost the Aleutian High potential (more poleward) and the oncoming easterlies helping to stir the waves up, could set the stage for some good blocking this January.

I think the cold still comes late Nov-early Dec, but it will have the variability theme going through 12/5. It is the 12/5-12/15 period that is cold and it likely snows for us before we break milder again. Toward New Years (in between xmas/new years) the NAO will come back strongly and produce a sustained cold / snowy pattern through most of January. I could see several snow events during that time, including the Mid-Atlantic.

The stratospheric signals like Jan 10-15 but other notable dates are jumping out, too (near New Years and perhaps 2 between jan 20 and feb 5).

Man, I love you and hope the he!! you are right!!!!

at 53, waiting for "next year" gets all the more tenuous

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here's a bone

18Z NAM at the end of the run

puts the front through BWI/DCA at 78 hrs so that we're at or below freezing at 850

http://mag.ncep.noaa...el=&imageSize=M

still plenty of moisture behind the 850 line at 78 hrs

http://mag.ncep.noaa...el=&imageSize=M

http://mag.ncep.noaa...el=&imageSize=M

81 and 84 panels show precip falling

but surface temps ain't so hot

this is similar setup to last week when I mentioned that the stubborn SE ridge may give us some rain to snow events

hey, it's something to practice fantasizing about!

.

At 81 hrs the surface temp forecast by the nam is 44 degrees so I wouldn't get too excited even if you want to fantasize.

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'67-'68 was a 40" winter here. The second November snowfall was 8", there was a 9" storm in Dec, a 6" fall that began on 2/29, and a 10" storm two weeks later, in March.

The first half of January was bitterly cold with a low at MRB of -13 twice, on 1/2 and 1/12. That two-week cold wave had an average daily hi/lo of 25/2 with consistent heavy snowcover.

Would love to come close to duplicating that winter.

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I've already had 3 or 4 nights at freezing or below. Shows how much the river impacts DCA's temps. I've been to 30 twice.

I've been down to 26* three times and 25* once more. I've actually been quite surprised at how many nights I've reached freezing this year. Of course, this is the first year I've had a fall/winter garden, so I've been paying quite a bit more attention to temperatures (as opposed to "dang, it's chilly this morning")...

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Charleston NWS says it well..."OUR ATTENTION HAS GONE QUICKLY FROM BRUSH FIRE CONCERNS TO FLOOD

CONCERNS."

They have the upper limit at over 3" possible by Wednesday night in my area. Gusty Thunderstorms this evening...slight risk area is just to my west.

Warm winds are gusting out of the south as they were all day yesterday. Leaves were flying everywhere. The airports gusts are into the 20s this morning.

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We've had too much rain as of late anyways. need a return to normal

I think we need to see that it can still get wet around here as winter approaches....I know it was wet but I'm not looking for it to start getting dry just as winter comes along....anywho...the weather will do what it wants to do....good luck to all of those forecasts out there.

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So far through yesterday

BWI -1.1

DCA -1.6

IAD -2.8

Probably ~+10 today, ~+10 tomorrow, ~+5 Wednesday, ~-3-5 Thursday, ~-5-8 Friday, ~-5 Saturday, and near normal Sunday. So that stretch will probably bring us a bit closer to normal on the month, before another warm up early next week and then a potential cold shot for the end of the month. I bet we end up within 1F of normal either way if that shakes out.

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Probably ~+10 today, ~+10 tomorrow, ~+5 Wednesday, ~-3-5 Thursday, ~-5-8 Friday, ~-5 Saturday, and near normal Sunday. So that stretch will probably bring us a bit closer to normal on the month, before another warm up early next week and then a potential cold shot for the end of the month. I bet we end up within 1F of normal either way if that shakes out.

Night time minimums sure have helped out Dulles....I'm also guessing the new norms were a bit higher than the old ones....seems like it was hard for IAD to be negative for the longest time but now not so much...so far anyway

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