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Met Winter 2021 - 2022 Banter


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2 hours ago, weathafella said:

My grandparents came over from Ukraine circa 1910.   On my grandmother’s papers upon entry at Ellis Island the country of origin is listed as Russia as that area (Berdychiv-about is 50 miles NE of Kyiv) was Russia for about 500 years from the Middle Ages until post USSR.

In one way I'm glad my father isn't alive to see what's going on In Ukraine.  He was a refuge who fled from the Russians in January of 1945 in Poland. He lived close to a sub-camp of Auchwitz and saw prisoners in a forced march. They fled Poland with the retreating German Army into Checkoslovakia and then into war ravaged Germany. 

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3 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Even if/when the Russian mob take over Kviv and imprison or kill Zelensky, that’s just the beginning of a potentially long war there. 

I just don't see a major insurgency. There will be a political solution, IMO, rather than a prolonged struggle.

The Russians are not just rolling with tanks and jets leveling the country. I have seen very few reports of civilian casualties and destruction of public infrastructure.

Clearly, Putin wants Zelensky to fold and allow the installation of a pro-Russian "transition" government of some sort.

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4 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I just don't see a major insurgency. There will be a political solution, IMO, rather than a prolonged struggle.

The Russians are not just rolling with tanks and jets leveling the country. I have seen very few reports of civilian casualties and destruction of public infrastructure.

Clearly, Putin wants Zelensky to fold and allow the installation of a pro-Russian "transition" government of some sort.

That’s possible. There are different intelligence/thoughts on post Russian takeover. With how Zelensky and his govt have united the country though and have showed action with the unwillingness to flee or surrender…should the Russians imprison or murder him and his inner circle…I don’t foresee Ukrainians giving diplomacy with a Pro Russia regime a chance.  Could be a combo of resistance and politics, it can go in several directions. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that, too early to tell still.

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36 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I just don't see a major insurgency. There will be a political solution, IMO, rather than a prolonged struggle.

The Russians are not just rolling with tanks and jets leveling the country. I have seen very few reports of civilian casualties and destruction of public infrastructure.

Clearly, Putin wants Zelensky to fold and allow the installation of a pro-Russian "transition" government of some sort.

His already financially strapped country is losing a ton of money every day they continue this battle. Who knows how their military is handling covid? Their country is dealing with omicron right now, their vaccine didn't seem to do very well, despite their claims....Hong Kong is a disaster right now, I cant imagine what the Russian army might be dealing with....

The last thing putin needs is to level the country, if he does take it over he wont have any money to rebuild it. To top it off, a majority of the world is going to boycott anything coming from Russia....It really doesn't seem like putin cares anything for his own country at this point.

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And lol at Putin saying on state TV they are fighting a neo-nazi regime in Ukraine and using (I won’t name names) American politicians and news outlets positive and glowing remarks for Putin as their justification. So Zelensky is jewish, yea. The propaganda Putin and his goons spill is akin to Nazi Germany. 

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5 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

And lol at Putin saying on state TV they are fighting a neo-nazi regime in Ukraine and using (I won’t name names) American politicians and news outlets positive and glowing remarks for Putin as their justification. So Zelensky is jewish, yea. The propaganda Putin and his goons spill is akin to Nazi Germany. 

Zelensky’s grandfather barely survived the Holocaust.   With that said, given free reign by Germany, there have been unspeakable murders of Jews by Ukrainians during the war.   Same for other countries notably Poland.   

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50 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

I just don't see a major insurgency. There will be a political solution, IMO, rather than a prolonged struggle.

The Russians are not just rolling with tanks and jets leveling the country. I have seen very few reports of civilian casualties and destruction of public infrastructure.

Clearly, Putin wants Zelensky to fold and allow the installation of a pro-Russian "transition" government of some sort.

Are you consuming RT for news?

Russia hasn't exactly been displaying targeted strikes so far. Plenty of damage in non-military parts of cities and plenty of civilian casualties being reported as well. Could it be worse? Sure, but this hasn't been surgical so far.

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3 minutes ago, weathafella said:

Zelensky’s grandfather barely survived the Holocaust.   With that said, given free reign by Germany, there have been unspeakable murders of Jews by Ukrainians during the war.   Same for other countries notably Poland.   

Of course. There is a great documentary on netflix about Ukrainians, Poles, and other neighboring countries participating in the murders.

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Just now, Sugarloaf1989 said:

Let's not forget it was also other undesirable groups as well that were murdered. Gypsies, homosexuals, extreme religious people, Roma, Mentally disabled and Polish people randomly executed. 

Yup, everyone but the delusional perfect race was in jeopardy. Once your area was invaded and controlled by nazi’s, you were either pro nazi or not, and either decision had it’s consequences. 

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15 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

 

Russia hasn't exactly been displaying targeted strikes so far. Plenty of damage in non-military parts of cities and plenty of civilian casualties being reported as well. Could it be worse? Sure, but this hasn't been surgical so far.

Seriously, can't be surgical when launching old Grads and Tornadoes. I assumed it would have been a lot more guided Iskanders but seems as though few have been fired. The Pentagon reported 160 missiles/rockets total in the first 48 hours, I think the opening of "Shock and Awe" had almost 3,000 in the first 48 hours. It looks like they decided to put all their older stuff to use, all the Mi-24, SU-24/5, T-72s. Makes sense but going to make for a lot more Russian casualties. I imagine they figured they didn't need to put out any of their new stuff, risk losing some, and providing NATO et al. with intel on its performance. 

 

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7 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

Seriously, can't be surgical when launching old Grads and Tornadoes. Looks like they decided to put all their older stuff to use, all the Mi-24, SU-24/5, T-72s. Makes sense but going to make for a lot more Russian casualties. I imagine they figured they didn't need to put out any of their new stuff, risk losing some, and providing NATO et al. with intel on its performance. 

These thermobaric weapons don’t look too surgical either. 
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-deploys-feared-tos-1-heavy-flamethrower-near-ukraine-cnn-2022-2?amp

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19 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Yup, everyone but the delusional perfect race was in jeopardy. Once your area was invaded and controlled by nazi’s, you were either pro nazi or not, and either decision had it’s consequences. 

The run up to murdering Jews started in 1939 with a euthanasia program called T4 This killed Mentally ill German citizens. The disease I have is hereditary. Thankfully my grandmother didn't have symptoms until the 1970's.

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3 minutes ago, Sugarloaf1989 said:

I just saw a clip of a Ukrainian driving in Eastern Ukraine.  He came across a stopped Russian tank. He asked what was wrong.  The commander says there out of fuel.  The guy offers to tow them back to Russia. :lol:

That was awesome. My other favorite were Ukrainian soldiers making fun of the old tanks the Russians were using after finding one abandoned.  

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36 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Are you consuming RT for news?

Russia hasn't exactly been displaying targeted strikes so far. Plenty of damage in non-military parts of cities and plenty of civilian casualties being reported as well. Could it be worse? Sure, but this hasn't been surgical so far.

Some seem to want to make this out to be WWIII. I have seen very little evidence of mass civilian deaths or damage. There is a lot of propaganda on Twitter from all sides, for sure. Considering Russia has already taken large swaths of the country, the fighting seems rather mild to me so far. If it was worse you’d be seeing a stronger EU response. 

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3 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Some seem to want to make this out to be WWIII. I have seen very little evidence of mass civilian deaths or damage. There is a lot of propaganda on Twitter from all sides, for sure. Considering Russia has already taken large swaths of the country, the fighting seems rather mild to me so far. If it was worse you’d be seeing a stronger EU response. 

Agree to disagree on this one. You call it a civil conflict among Ukrainians. Say what you want about Luhansk and Donetsk, but there was no civil conflict in Kyiv yet they are being bombed every few hours. Russia overstepped on this one, there's just no way around it.

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4 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Agree to disagree on this one. You call it a civil conflict among Ukrainians. Say what you want about Luhansk and Donetsk, but there was no civil conflict in Kyiv yet they are being bombed every few hours. Russia overstepped on this one, there's just no way around it.

Supposedly the press access to other parts of Ukraine is becoming more restricted.  This is affecting the ability to know what's going on more difficult. 

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53 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

Seriously, can't be surgical when launching old Grads and Tornadoes. I assumed it would have been a lot more guided Iskanders but seems as though few have been fired. The Pentagon reported 160 missiles/rockets total in the first 48 hours, I think the opening of "Shock and Awe" had almost 3,000 in the first 48 hours. It looks like they decided to put all their older stuff to use, all the Mi-24, SU-24/5, T-72s. Makes sense but going to make for a lot more Russian casualties. I imagine they figured they didn't need to put out any of their new stuff, risk losing some, and providing NATO et al. with intel on its performance. 

 

They are attacking military targets. I am not making excuses for Putin, but the Russians are trying to be careful and it’s on purpose. 

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