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January 2020 General Discussions & Observations Thread


Rtd208
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My initial thinking on the system is that a window of opportunity continues to exist. This hasn't been in doubt. The base case is that the potential for a light accumulation in the NYC/EWR area exists with a higher probability of a moderate or possibly even significant accumulation in parts of New England, including Boston.

The pattern has some similarities to that when a storm affected the region on January 16-17, 1965, but with some differences (a far less impressive and weakening PNA ridge is forecast) and the 500 mb trough placement differs, too. These differences could result in a somewhat "too late, too little" scenario for NYC/EWR. Cold air would arrive, but by then the heaviest precipitation would be off to the east. Parts of Long Island, particularly Suffolk County, could see higher accumulations as the storm begins to rapidly develop on its approach to the New England coastal waters or when it is over those waters.

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55 minutes ago, NYCweatherNOW said:

These warm weenies are stuck on dumb the euro looks beautiful for everybody 

The majority of us are snow weenies on here. Not many warm weenies on here, just realists. If I went by your forecasts this winter, I would already have been well over a foot of snow. Instead, I'm barely at 3 inches, so who is more accurate? Many are just looking at the trends and models and most of the models this winter have proved to be too cold and accumulations overdone, as @bluewave pointed out, you have to look at all layers, not just the pretty snow accumulation maps which are terrible. 

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1 hour ago, Allsnow said:

These Miller B’s tend to favor sne and Long Island. I would not be shocked to see little to nothing around the metro with 2-3 on the island. 

Agreed, I would take that 6z euro map and cut it in half maybe more with accumulations if we are taking the model at face value here. While it’s cold enough to snow on it, how much of that truly will stick with surface temps in the 35-37 range? That just smells like white rain and Piss ooor ratios.  Plus, that euro run was a major outlier in the eps. Same thing happened to nyc back in early dec just couldn’t overcome poor BL despite decent precip. If things tick colder then I would start to buy into a better chance for accumulations in the city. North and west complete different story. 

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1 hour ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

Definitely.

And then if the whole thing from 4/5 to COD back to 4/5 happens again in February then we're cooking in February, probably 70's with low 80's near and in the UHI. Forget about March, even though it's been the snowiest month in 4 of the last 5 seasons, if this scenario keeps repeating March is done and never delivers anyway, except of course in 4 of those last 5 years. April is now a summer month, except of course two years ago when 6 inches fell in the city.

The least amount of snow in a single season is 2.8 inches in NYC (1972-73) and right now they're at 2.5 inches. There's a good chance right now they may break that record for least amount of snow in a season.

IMO, that record is almost certainly safe. The least snow during the January-April period is the 2.8" that was recorded during winter 1972-73. NYC would need just 0.2" during that period to break the record and no season has come close to such a minimal amount during January-April.

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3 minutes ago, tombo82685 said:

Agreed, I would take that 6z euro map and cut it in half maybe more with accumulations if we are taking the model at face value here. While it’s cold enough to snow on it, how much of that truly will stick with surface temps in the 35-37 range? That just smells like white rain and Piss ooor ratios.  Same thing happened to nyc back in early dec just couldn’t overcome poor BL despite decent precip. If things tick colder then I would start to buy into a better chance for accumulations in the city. North and west complete different story. 

Yep. I sat at 34 the entire time with poor snow growth. This is taking a similar track with a similar airmass. 

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5 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

IMO, that record is almost certainly safe. The least snow during the January-April period is the 2.8" that was recorded during winter 1972-73. NYC would need just 0.2" during that period to break the record and no season has come close to such a minimal amount during January-April.

even in crappy winters like 97-98 we get a freak snowstorm that ruins the record-I think that year may have been close to 0 before the 3/22/98 storm dropped 4-6 inches to ruin it.

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3 hours ago, CPcantmeasuresnow said:

And then if the whole thing from 4/5 to COD back to 4/5 happens again in February then we're cooking in February, probably 70's with low 80's near and in the UHI. Forget about March, even though it's been the snowiest month in 4 of the last 5 seasons, if this scenario keeps repeating March is done and never delivers anyway, except of course in 4 of those last 5 years. April is now a summer month, except of course two years ago when 6 inches fell in the city.

 

Edward Lorenz is fluttering in his grave.  :)

 

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The mid-week event is the system to monitor closely - the 540 line is east and south of us already before precip arrives - just have to get the track to go far enough south and east of us too - and get some dynamics working

gfs_mslp_pcpn_frzn_us_22.png

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1 hour ago, SnowGoose69 said:

It develops the system way too late.  The 500 track though isn’t bad 

The 12z UKMET looks similar to the NAM. Very fast flow with a kicker north of Minnesota. So the storm gets going too far offshore this run.

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10 minutes ago, bluewave said:

The 12z UKMET looks similar to the NAM. Very fast flow with a kicker north of Minnesota. So the storm gets going too far offshore this run.

The only model showing a snow event in the metro area is the Euro. All the new 12Z model runs NAM, GFS, CMC, UKMET, ICON are strictly all rain events, once again. The GEFS just went way north into far upstate NY with any accumulating snow

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6 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

The only model showing a snow event in the metro area is the Euro. All the new 12Z model runs NAM, GFS, CMC, UKMET, ICON are strictly all rain events, once again. The GEFS just went way north into far upstate NY with any accumulating snow

Icon looked good. Thermals suck for the model.

Still time for the models to sway either way.

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18 hours ago, bluewave said:

This goes to show how extreme the heatwave driving those SST’s north of Australia has been.

 

 

 

I am uncertain whether I ever recall seeing such an expansive (or any) area of 32C coverage in that part of the world. These are 90 degree F water temperatures to the north of Australia. For such an anomaly in the deep tropics, it yields a significant impact on the energy budget as you know, and concordantly, it isn't surprising to see the modeled high amplitude in phases 4/5 of the MJO. This is akin to throwing gasoline on the proverbial fire. Ambient SST's of 32C/90F are very impressive. This will further serve to enhance the MJO in its unfavorable [from E US perspective] octants.

 

cdas-sflux_sst_global_1.png

 

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20 minutes ago, Isotherm said:

 

 

I am uncertain whether I ever recall seeing such an expansive (or any) area of 32C coverage in that part of the world. These are 90 degree F water temperatures to the north of Australia. For such an anomaly in the deep tropics, it yields a significant impact on the energy budget as you know, and concordantly, it isn't surprising to see the modeled high amplitude in phases 4/5 of the MJO. This is akin to throwing gasoline on the proverbial fire. Ambient SST's of 32C/90F are very impressive. This will further serve to enhance the MJO in its unfavorable [from E US perspective] octants.

 

cdas-sflux_sst_global_1.png

 

it's amazing how warm water north of a continent thousands of miles away can wreck our winter....oh well, going to enjoy the warmth, if it's not going to snow, give me 60 degrees

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23 minutes ago, Snow88 said:

Icon looked good. Thermals suck for the model.

Still time for the models to sway either way.

we're 2.5 days out-today's model trends are certainly a big disappointment.  If we miss this week and early next week, it's possible we go virtually snowless for Jan unless the very end of January delivers.    The 80's are back!  

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1 minute ago, Brian5671 said:

we're 2.5 days out-today's model trends are certainly a big disappointment.  If we miss this week and early next week, it's possible we go virtually snowless for Jan unless the very end of January delivers.    The 80's are back!  

considering how unreliable the models have been recently

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3 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

we're 2.5 days out-today's model trends are certainly a big disappointment.  If we miss this week and early next week, it's possible we go virtually snowless for Jan unless the very end of January delivers.    The 80's are back!  

its also possible to end up with near normal snowfall for the month or above avg. snowfall...…….

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7 minutes ago, Brian5671 said:

we're 2.5 days out-today's model trends are certainly a big disappointment.  If we miss this week and early next week, it's possible we go virtually snowless for Jan unless the very end of January delivers.    The 80's are back!  

1 system in February can bring us to normal.

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