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February Medium/Long Range Discussion Thread


North Balti Zen

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2 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Nice gefs run. Start to finish. Lots of threats spread out through day 16. Maintains some ridging over GL also. 

This is the period we've been waiting for. It's not perfect or a big noreaster look over the next 2 weeks but we fiiiiinnnnalllly have reinforcing highs sliding by to the north, confluence off and on, and pac shortwaves traversing the conus. It's going to be pretty busy for a few weeks. We can actually fail on something and not have to wait 2-3 weeks before another chance comes along. 

I would consider hitting 50% of climo a win at this point.  I don't think that's too lofty but maybe pushing it a little. Lol

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22 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Ideally if we want to be greedy the best storms have what we call a banana high.  The trough digs into the east and a system comes at us from the south with cold and higher pressure across the north locked in by confluence usually created by blocking over the top. Then as the storm comes up you get the classic look of the high bending around the system or the "banana" look. The most classic example.

IMG_0391.JPG

But most of our snow doesn't come from 20-30" ideal setups.  If we had to choose between a high in front or behind take in front.  We rarely do well with cold crashing in behind the system.  Sometimes with a good h5 pass we can flip and get thumped but more often it's a losing setup.  Needs perfect timing, a slow moving system, and plus as the cold advection comes in usually the winds turn to a westerly component which is doensloping off the apps and kills us.  We're much better off with a high in front and the system coming into it.  That's why getting lower heights to our northeast is a big deal.  That tends to create a northerly flow out of Quebec around the h5 low to our northeast and combined with the westerly flow as a system approaches creates confluence.  Air streams coming together or merging and that aids in supporting high pressure to our north.  That helps hold the cold in longer as a waa starts when a system approaches.  

Some examples of how we can score with a high out front and a system approaching as ridging comes across the Conus

IMG_0395.JPG

That was a system in feb 2007 that dropped 3-6" across our area despite a low up near Chicago because we had a high in front. Notice there was enough resistance to force the system to develop a triple poimtloe muting the waa surge. 

IMG_0397.JPG

that doesn't look like much but it was 4-8" in january 04 from another somewhat similar setup. No two setups are the same so be careful using analogs but they give us a general guide to how similar setups can work. Notice some similarity with the h5 setup below and this setup next week with the ridge trough placement and especially the flow to our northeast. 

IMG_0396.GIF

 

Was that first map from '96?

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4 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

Euro is pretty close to a phase job but too much suppression leading in. I'd much prefer to root for less suppression over long leads then the other way around. Especially this year. 

Yeah its decently close. At least this run we get a little something from the ns energy. This is gonna be fun.

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4 minutes ago, Paleocene said:

Looong time lurker, first time poster. Thought I'd finally hop in.

Isn't this a pretty good look for a D9 op, even if it is a suppressed fish storm?

 

ecmwf_z500a_us_10.png

It's a good look in the sense of if the ns shortwave on that panel phases with the lead then you have a monster somewhere. They really just miss each other this run. Just another take on the period. We're going to see the full gambit over the next week.  

I'd be thrilled with a phased bomb even if it means getting hit with a mix during it. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Bob Chill said:

It's a good look in the sense of if the ns shortwave on that panel phases with the lead then you have a monster somewhere. They really just miss each other this run. Just another take on the period. We're going to see the full gambit over the next week.  

I'd be thrilled with a phased bomb even if it means getting hit with a mix during it. 

 

Thanks, Bob.  I guess this question goes to anyone but am I getting this right, in non-technical terms: the shortwaves show up on that 500mb anomaly map as wiggles/bends in the longwave pattern. See poorly drawn MSpaint thing. For reference, I'm a social scientist with no hard science background beyond AP Physics more than a decade ago. I'm trying to figure this stuff out on my own, it's fun. No offense taken if I'm dead wrong

 

 

waves.png

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1 minute ago, Paleocene said:

Thanks, Bob.  I guess this question goes to anyone but am I getting this right, in non-technical terms: the shortwaves show up on that 500mb anomaly map as wiggles/bends in the longwave pattern. See poorly drawn MSpaint thing. For reference, I'm a social scientist with no hard science background beyond AP Physics more than a decade ago. I'm trying to figure this stuff out on my own, it's fun. No offense taken if I'm dead wrong

 

 

waves.png

You got it. If the lead didn't get suppressed and pushed se off the coast and started climbing instead, the two waves would phase and probably close off. Bombs away. 

Otoh- we'd be just fine with the lead simply climbing and not even having the trailing vort in the picture. We don't need a phase to have a fine event. But who doesn't like a big closed off bomb overhead? Lol

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1 hour ago, Maestrobjwa said:

@psuhoffmanI have a similar thank you, as I am a classical musician (not far removed from my undergrad degree) who also is learning a lot from your posts and others here as well. (Who says the arts and meteorology can't go together? In fact, weather inspires art and music!) Good to learn how things work in the atmosphere to form my favorite type of precipitation!

Glad to have more people interested. 

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1 hour ago, Bob Chill said:

This is the period we've been waiting for. It's not perfect or a big noreaster look over the next 2 weeks but we fiiiiinnnnalllly have reinforcing highs sliding by to the north, confluence off and on, and pac shortwaves traversing the conus. It's going to be pretty busy for a few weeks. We can actually fail on something and not have to wait 2-3 weeks before another chance comes along. 

I would consider hitting 50% of climo a win at this point.  I don't think that's too lofty but maybe pushing it a little. Lol

Right now it looks like a solid 7 pattern. Not like feb 2010 or anything but light years better then anything we've had since the blizzard.  If the on again off again blocking flexes just a bit in the long range it becomes an 8/9 easy. 

This is now only 72 hours. Needless to say we finally do get some help up near Greenland. 

IMG_0398.PNG

that sets everything in motion after. That's a pretty good "it should snow soon" look right there.  Everyone keeps bringing up the strat but it's hard to quantify its effects. Perhaps this decent look up too is the result and it's muted by the qbo but at least we're getting some help. Just conjecture. There are some signs the mjo might kick in our favor later in feb plus a PV split and displacement could aid more blocking. I think there is hope now this might reload not break down after week two but we have some good times before then so no reason to worry too much either way. 

Finally I could see this leading to a monster a few days later. If you loop the vortex in Canada is diving in as it pinwheels around the one rotating up the Atlantic side. And the GL ridging is relaxing but looks up hang in somewhat or possibly reload. Definitely can see how that diving in ends up an east coast bomb day 13-15. See what I see?

IMG_0399.PNG

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One last thing regarding the euro being south. Even the early Jan system came north late. But it trended way too south first. By the time it started the north bleed the axis of snow was Atlanta to the outer banks. That's no good. Having a model blast along the NC VA border day 8 is fine. If we get to day 4 and the consensus is Raleigh again then we might have to worry about suppression. 

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7 minutes ago, psuhoffman said:

Right now it looks like a solid 7 pattern. Not like feb 2010 or anything but light years better then anything we've had since the blizzard.  If the on again off again blocking flexes just a bit in the long range it becomes an 8/9 easy. 

This is now only 72 hours. Needless to say we finally do get some help up near Greenland. 

IMG_0398.PNG

that sets everything in motion after. That's a pretty good "it should snow soon" look right there.  Everyone keeps bringing up the strat but it's hard to quantify its effects. Perhaps this decent look up too is the result and it's muted by the qbo but at least we're getting some help. Just conjecture. There are some signs the mjo might kick in our favor later in feb plus a PV split and displacement could aid more blocking. I think there is hope now this might reload not break down after week two but we have some good times before then so no reason to worry too much either way. 

Finally I could see this leading to a monster a few days later. If you loop the vortex in Canada is diving in as it pinwheels around the one rotating up the Atlantic side. And the GL ridging is relaxing but looks up hang in somewhat or possibly reload. Definitely can see how that diving in ends up an east coast bomb day 13-15. See what I see?

IMG_0399.PNG

Damn, I'd like to see that last map verify at lead. That's pretty sweet. Like a pendulum waiting to swing down. 

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2 minutes ago, Thanatos_I_Am said:

Yep. Before the storm window mean is at about .5" and after it jumps to around 3-3.5" area wide. Pretty nice seeing a 2.5" mean for a single storm at this range. 

Any clusters of Lows ~hr200?

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