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Winter 15-16 Discussion


griteater

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Agree, however I do not think we will be waiting until January for the cold. I'm not sure where he is located but I would find that very unlikely for WNC/Northern Upstate.

The analogs I've seen suggest a warm November and torch December. The mountains might see some snow when a transient cold shot moves through but otherwise it looks like almost all of us will have to wait until January for legit chances to start happening. Strong El Ninos like this one traditionally have a warm November-December then as they break down switch us to a cold pattern.

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Sure seems like a lot pf positives going for us coming into this winter for snow. I really like this part from the forecast that someone poster from the mets in SC.

 

Justus said it's only a matter of time for the match-up to occur. "With as many storms as we are expecting, it's not a matter of if the cold air will collide with moisture, but rather when," Justus said.

 

We have been very active since September as far as precip goes. And it looks like this will continue with the El Nino in force. The more precip we have, the more chances we have for it to meet with the cold air and get some snow. Sure, we'll probably have a lot of cold rain, but it still means an increased chance of snow, too. It would be nice to have four or five events with at least one big dog. 

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The analogs I've seen suggest a warm November and torch December. The mountains might see some snow when a transient cold shot moves through but otherwise it looks like almost all of us will have to wait until January for legit chances to start happening. Strong El Ninos like this one traditionally have a warm November-December then as they break down switch us to a cold pattern.

but we had our only snow of the 97-98 winter in December 97. Isn't this el Nino similar in strength to that one ? Jan and Feb 98 were pretty mild here if I remember correctly. Why will this Jan and Feb be any different ?
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The analogs I've seen suggest a warm November and torch December. The mountains might see some snow when a transient cold shot moves through but otherwise it looks like almost all of us will have to wait until January for legit chances to start happening. Strong El Ninos like this one traditionally have a warm November-December then as they break down switch us to a cold pattern.

I am not as meteorologically inclined as most on here but I do enjoy looking at trends and analog years, and I'm just not seeing an analog year I like right now. It's unprecedented. Heck, for KAVL our September-November temperatures, and precipitation anomalies are more in line with 09-10 than either than anything I can remember for 82-23 or 97-98. If I am not mistaken, we were just below average to average for our mean October/November temperatures in both 82 and 97, and that definitely isn't the case this year. Just gathering some info, take a look at the similarities going into Fall:

 

200906-200908.gif

201508-201508.gif

f1da9f40-1509-4a69-8421-1344f85710ca_zps

 

 

 

As opposed to this:

 

 

 

summer-temp-anoms-1982-1997.jpg

 

 

 

 

Now compare this to what we're seeing currently, and have been for a month or 2:

 

 

 

19821997fall.pngtave-anom-201509.gif

 

 

 

I don't know what's in store honestly, and we can analyze the data and debate until the cows come home but my gut is simply not telling me that we'll have to wait until January. It would not surprise me one bit to see this thing flip over night, at the beginning of December just like it did in 2009. In talking with people around here about the weather patterns leading up to that winter from the summer drought, to fall rain and temperatures, to a scorching start to November, etc, it's nearly identical. I very well could be wrong but I'm just going with my gut right now.

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but we had our only snow of the 97-98 winter in December 97. Isn't this el Nino similar in strength to that one ? Jan and Feb 98 were pretty mild here if I remember correctly. Why will this Jan and Feb be any different ?

The main years I've used which seem similar and how I expect the pattern to evolve are as follows: 1957-58, 1965-66, 1972-73 1982-83, 1987-88 and then a few similarities of the Nino intensity to 1997-1998. If you plot those years on the maps you'll see an average to slightly warm November with cold centered out west. This is exactly what the GFS and Euro are showing through mid November. Then the analog shows a torch for December with a transition in early January occurring. February could be quite cold.

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WxSouth mentions the +PNA and -NAO combo!

 

I'm eyeing a distinct pattern change, something that just might be a catalyst into the first Major Winter type pattern of the upcoming season. Its still far out there, no guarantees. It's very interesting though, and fits how I envisioned this Winter to evolve. Combining tall western ridges (+PNA), Periods of negative North Atlantic Oscillation (-NAO), and an active storm track, with some hints at Pacific Split flow, thanks to El Nino. The process begins in 7 days on all models, with a southern Greenland ridge going up. After day 10, according to GFS model, a tall western ridge goes up.
The result--- Here comes the first really cold blast. I'll have the chances of this happening, as well as short term weather postings at my monthly site soon.
Wxsouth.

 

12208600_1161159527247434_48686683729799

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Hello 384hr GFS!

attachicon.gifgfs_z500_mslp_namer_53.png

 

Yeah, I was looking at the emergence of the greenland blocking yesterday (higher heights anyway/ridging).  It's on the ensembles too, EURO and GFS.  At this point in the season I just count it as noise, especially at such long leads.  I'll start actually paying attention to models mid December.  Hopefully the same look is there then. 

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Yeah, I was looking at the emergence of the greenland blocking yesterday (higher heights anyway/ridging).  It's on the ensembles too, EURO and GFS.  At this point in the season I just count it as noise, especially at such long leads.  I'll start actually paying attention to models mid December.  Hopefully the same look is there then.

Agreed!

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Wife had on the Weather Channel/Weather Underground segment while I was fixing dinner tonight, and they did an excellent presentation on the recent CAD events and why we've been socked in with clouds all week. The forecasters said that with the projected el Nino forecast and jet stream pattern, that the CADs will become common this winter, and that the Atlanta area should experience higher than normal ice events.

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Wife had on the Weather Channel/Weather Underground segment while I was fixing dinner tonight, and they did an excellent presentation on the recent CAD events and why we've been socked in with clouds all week. The forecasters said that with the projected el Nino forecast and jet stream pattern, that the CADs will become common this winter, and that the Atlanta area should experience higher than normal ice events.

I only flipped to see the very last part of the segment, when they were discussing how it makes severe wx fall apart and that Birmingham has different weather than Atlanta. But also, North GA almost always gets ice strictly from CAD whereas Birmingham never does so in a sense they are right. And what do you know, right after a wedge is eroded today, 3 days later and we'll be right back in another one, and the coldest one yet. Winter of the wedge? Bring it on! They're fascinating! I love them!

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Things look to be shaping up well with the climate models.

 

CFSv2 4x runs averaged over 30 days (120 model runs runs) on the left, 1-day 4x runs on the right. It's had the Feb pattern for a while now but it looks to be sniffing out December in the latest runs, with a trough undercutting the ridge there.

 

0Ha0SGw.png

 

 

 

Take a look at the 12z run of the CFSv2 over the south....

 

yIqrms8.png

 

 

and the 6z run....

 

A8YdL8r.png

 

Here's the 45 day average (with November torch)....There was NO BLUE over the US in the previous several 45 day average runs.

 

U5oPPuI.png

 

Alright with that said it is the CFSv2, so take it with a grain...things change day to day, that's why I like to look at the 7, 14, or 30 day averages of the model. But looking at daily or 3x day averages can "sniff out" pattern changes evolving, sometimes.

 

Now just for fun, here's the latest Beijing Climate Center model ensemble with 30 members, 500mb anomaly centered 11/26/2015-12/05/2015

1kZH5b3.png

 

Yeah , it's not an -AO...but you have a clear Aleutian low which is favored by just about every forecaster and climate model this winter, pacific high and a trough on the east.

 

aaaand the first half of December you see an active flow across the southern US up the east coast

BO2uCAL.png

 

I suspect it will get a little prettier in the next few runs, we'll see.

 

Here's a twitter chain that's an interesting take on the Aleutian LP/north pacific LP. Note the recent Nov comment.  https://twitter.com/wxmidwest/status/656238905516249088

 

Anyway, we can't do much but look at the CFS and weird, random climate models (JMA, CanSIPS, NASA, NMME, etc)...pretty soon all we'll be doing is looking at the last frame of the GFS hoping it verifies.

 

BTW, did you notice the 12 and 18z GFS wants to pop a low south of NC with a HP not too far away? I guess we can start watching the last frame of the GFS now. Here's to a great winter for the SE *knocks on wood*

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Record Siberian snow could bode ill for Northeast

USA Today article via WCNC

 

There is a theory about snow in Siberia during the month of October: If there is a lot, it can mean a particularly wicked winter in the northeast United States.

Last month, Siberia experienced record snowfall and the worst blizzard in a decade.

Above-average snow cover in Siberia is believed to affect the now-famous polar vortex and send bitterly cold temperatures to the Northeast. This happens when the Arctic Oscillation, a climate pattern, shifts.

 

http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/nation/2015/11/07/record-siberian-snow-could-bode-ill-northeast/75224060/

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Record Siberian snow could bode ill for Northeast

USA Today article via WCNC

There is a theory about snow in Siberia during the month of October: If there is a lot, it can mean a particularly wicked winter in the northeast United States.

Last month, Siberia experienced record snowfall and the worst blizzard in a decade.

Above-average snow cover in Siberia is believed to affect the now-famous polar vortex and send bitterly cold temperatures to the Northeast. This happens when the Arctic Oscillation, a climate pattern, shifts.

http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/nation/2015/11/07/record-siberian-snow-could-bode-ill-northeast/75224060/

Can't wait for BOS and NYC to get their 100" totals this winter! There does not seem to be any normal low temps or below freezing temps in the next 2+ weeks! Don't know if I've ever made it to Dec without a freeze, that I can recall? Is that unusual?
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