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December 19th-20 Storm Thread III


Baroclinic Zone

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I think part of the problem is the anomalous pattern. We have huge blocking with fast flow underneath...no ridge in the west. Last year we had stronger blocking and ridging out west...this equals slower flow. The flow now is fast under the big GOA low and like Wes said in the main thread...we are getting bombarded with s/w's. Having that kind of flow will cause any little change in timing to have big differences down stream some 48-72 hrs.

So the GoA low is screwing us even though its not flooding us with warm Pacific air. FWIW, (probably not much) the GFS is showing a little bit of a ridge out west for the Christmas Day threat. Based on what you're saying maybe that will help us. Still 8 days out though.

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Whatever data they all see today has led to OTS runs. Euro will not be drastically different IMO, but it might not be a total whiff... We'll know soon enough!

And they could all resurrect this thing somewhat for eastern areas in later runs because it is still 2 days + away. Maybe Ray should hold off on heading to the bridge. LOL

it would really suck if the euro came back west and really screwed everyone up :devilsmiley:

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So the GoA low is screwing us even though its not flooding us with warm Pacific air. FWIW, (probably not much) the GFS is showing a little bit of a ridge out west for the Christmas Day threat. Based on what you're saying maybe that will help us. Still 8 days out though.

Well you figure we probably have fast flow underneath that low. Just a few thoughts anyways. Wes and Don S seem to go along those lines.

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fixed.

I think we will see some shifting that will maybe help eastern areas (extreme) but how many times have things trended back in these situations for the positive? Almost never. It's largely over and we know the EC is going to be a miss too.

I think the Bos to PVD corridor still has to be alert and points SE particularly. (up north not commenting). But everyone else, I suspect it's already cooked.

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So far this month the retro's have mainly benefited Northern NE and Quebec. So maybe we should keep that in mind before getting worked up over a few inches from that. Dendrite's area etc. a lot more hope probably....

Did you guys notice that GGEM retrogrades this storm back and gives decent snows all the way to NYC almost?

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Euro 54 hours, low is 30/70 and heading out. The model forgot which latitude was the bm and put it 30 vs 40...lol

Hahaha, so what we have is the classic scenario at the end of this clip. This summarizes the last 24 hours for weather weenies. This represents the 0z, 6z, and finally the 12z run. That's Ray jumping off the roof behind Leslie Nielsen. Nielsen plays the role of messenger.

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Has anyone figured out why yesterday's Euro was so different from today's?

I think it's a case where we lost the perfect timing with the SW s/w and the NW s/w. ON the big hits we were getting the PAC NW energy diving into the srn stream s/w and we were getting some early amplification. The vmax dug hard and strong into the SE and off the NC coast and spawned rapid cyclogenesis. Now we seem to be getting a weak GOM/SE sfc reflection associated with the first srn stream s/w. The PAC NW energy dives in too late and pushes the weak srn streamer along. In the loops you can kinda see it round the base of the trough and dampen in the longwave flow. The energy diving in behind it is a bit too late and we get a 2nd low that takes over well OTS. That's my take on it anyway...maybe the others disagree.
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The Euro is ridiculously OTS through 78hr. lol

Nogaps out to sea?

Nogaps is a miss by 400-500 miles and has no backlash at all. I think it's either going to be that scenario or one that works back to the CP but now an ultimate miss, partly cloudy is on the table.

I feel the real culprits are the initial impulse that so typically hangs back in the trough structure near Chicago Saturday which serves to help crush/disorganize the energy in the deep south causing it to move quickly. That takes the deep moisture with it, and the surface low that fires up.

This is a comical failure for the EC. It's not in league with the GFS until proven otherwise.

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