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December 19th-20 Storm Thread II


Baroclinic Zone

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Everyone keeps saying they've never seem such big swings in the models. So no one remembers a couple winters ago...Feb 2009 I believe. IIRC...models were looking like a HV runner up until about 72 hours out. Then suddenly we had a couple runs that trended way east and got us in the game for a MECs. Everyone got amped up. Then 48-60 hours out...models started trending back west to a HV runner...but the didn't stop there. When all was said and done the low went to fooking Chicago. That is the most ridiculous flip-flopping and model performance within 72 hours I've seen. Models have been screwing with our heads ever since.

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HPC overnight.

UPDATED MORNING PRELIMS BLENDED THE 00Z UKMET WITH THE 00Z ECMWF

ENS MEAN DAYS 3 TO 5.

THIS KEPT UP A WIND AND COASTAL SNOW THREAT ALONG THE NEW ENGLAND

COAST DAYS 4-5 LATE SUN INTO TUES. OPERATIONAL RUNS OF 00Z ECMWF

AND GFS HAVE REVERSED SOLUTIONS SINCE YTDAS 12Z RUNS WITH THE N

ATLC LOW. LAGGED AVERAGE FORECAST OF LAST 4 RUNS OF BOTH GFS AND

ECMWF PREFERRED KEEPING THE SFC LOW EAST OF THE 00Z OP ECMWF

CLOSER TO THE 00Z ECMWF ENS MEAN AND EASILY CLOSE ENOUGH TO AFFECT

COASTAL NEW ENGLAND.

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Yesterday's double crush runs on the Euro was amazing if just for great winter weather porn but how common with a coastal snow event of any magnitude is it for there to be runs like the euro that crush just about all of sne at some point leading up to the actual event?

Based on the last five seasons here in the Springfield Mass area we are at a deficit of about 40 inches or a little more...going on a 50 inch average.

The last storm which brought a foot plus of snow was the Feb 06 event that put down 16 inches where I live, however just west of here, literally a few miles some parts of Springfield only had 8-10 inches while just to the east of where I am (east forest park) upwards to 21 inches of snow fell, all within the city limits!!

I have only been in the Springfield area for five winters (this being my sixth). Is there anyone here who has lived in Springfield and measured an honest two foot event? I know kcef never has had one documented.

I've lived around Springfield for over 20 years...never saw 2 feet. The biggest one I personally saw was March 93 where we had about 18". Jan 96 was 15.5" in my backyard. I was in Worcester during Feb 06 and in NYC during PD II -- those look like they were foot and a half events around Springfield. I think the closest Springfield came recently was in Feb 01 when I was in CT -- there were several reports close to 2 feet and my family told me there was 2 feet...that was a gross estimate.

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Gun to your head....or maybe what you'll need to do today for a paycheck...what's your sense Scott?

It's amazing what 40-50 miles will mean for us.

I think we will see some snow, and a mdt event could be in the cards for us. Even the euro has a significant amount of wrap around snow for us, so if we just get clipped by the main low, we could have several inches of wrap around.

I've never seen such wild swings in both the op runs and ensembles, which makes confidence shaky at best, but I do think we'll see a decent event. My gut says 12z may trend west just a bit, but nothing would surprise me at this point.

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Ok big guy. Try driving here on a daily basis with all season radials. I pull you guys out of ditches all winter.

i see your a tough guy and i was just trying to make conversation .

never have gone into a ditch so i guess you wont be pulling me out of any snow bank soon or my F250

and the ones in ditches don't know how to drive .

back to the weather

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I think we see more models shift west again today may not be huge swings but really for the most part they do not need to be, With all the data finally onshore today we should hopefully start to see some positive trends and be able to start sustaining them for a few cycles..........

Exactly.. I've seen models shift 100 miles 48 hours out in less complicated setups

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It's amazing what 40-50 miles will mean for us.

I think we will see some snow, and a mdt event could be in the cards for us. Even the euro has a significant amount of wrap around snow for us, so if we just get clipped by the main low, we could have several inches of wrap around.

I've never seen such wild swings in both the op runs and ensembles, which makes confidence shaky at best, but I do think we'll see a decent event. My gut says 12z may trend west just a bit, but nothing would surprise me at this point.

I wouldn't even rule out something much bigger, but the odds of that are much less. The thing is, if you get into the comma head of a low moving north and then nw...watch out. The GFS is close to that. As Ray would say, someone in AZ could fart and change the orientation of the s/w coming across the south. Phasing is a very intricate process, so if the s/w is just a little off or perhaps less intense...then we see big downstream changes. It's the classic saying of, small change here means big change there.

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Guys.. please remember what dt and Wes said last night.. that s/w wont be on shore until 12z! So lets wait through the 12z runs before we jump ship... srefs NW is huge IMO.. Nam will.certainly come west...

We are only 150 miles of heavy snow! Because this stalls perfectly

Got to give you credit for bringing some sanity to the board for these events. As stated we are talking about a storm that has not even formed folks.

It would be funny if this came around to being a more strung out disorganized system after all the hype about major coastal bomb.

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I wouldn't even rule out something much bigger, but the odds of that are much less. The thing is, if you get into the comma head of a low moving north and then nw...watch out. The GFS is close to that. As Ray would say, someone in AZ could fart and change the orientation of the s/w coming across the south. Phasing is a very intricate process, so if the s/w is just a little off or perhaps less intense...then we see big downstream changes. It's the classic saying of, small change here means big change there.

dam i just farted i hope this storm wont be going ots now :lightning:

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What a rollercoaster ride. Blockbuster, out to sea, historic blizzard, mixing concerns, coastal scraper. It really makes me nervous that even the best-case scenarios seem to rely heavily on late trowal/wraparound/retro snows, which never seem to pan out as hoped. Even if this does end up coming together as currently depicted, it's going to be nerve-wracking watching the radar returns since it likely won't be the classic scenario of snows steadlily creeping up the coast. Instead, many of us will be watching and waiting for the late left hook.

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24" in Westfield, most of which fell in 8 hours. 2001 (?). Awesome, awesome, awesome rates.

That was 2/5/01. I was visiting a friend in East Longmeadow Mass...we measured exactly 24" inches in 11 or 12 hours...measuring 3 to 4 inches in an hour at one point during the early evening. Thunder and lightning too. The snow came in like a wall...went from nothing to S+ almost immediately...and stayed that way. Awesome storm...one of my favorites...especially since I was just visiting a friend and ordinarily wouldn't have been there.

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Why do I get the sense people only think it's gonna snow in Eastern Mass?

All modelling has snow back into ENY state

All there is is talk about Eastern Mass when the majority of posters don't even live there

Yes, the euro also has wrap around moisture back to God's country. Jerry just asked me a question about BOS.

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