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December 19th-20 Storm Thread II


Baroclinic Zone

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As easy it is to get upset here, and I'll admit I'm pretty damn upset but in reality like you said this probably isn't over by a long shot. The models are just having such a time handling the northern/southern stream shortwaves and how they interact with one another and having issues with how amplified things become in the southern stream. We've seen within the models that there definitely is potential for things to come together and despite the backward trends on the GFS/Euro they still continue to be rather close.

One positive thing on the NAM's side was how negatively tilted the southern stream energy became...this is something to watch closely over the next few days...if we can get the energy to take on the negative tilt early enough that would be really beneficial in bringing this thing further west.

While it would have been nice to see some consistency here given what we are looking at to get a hit you really can't expect the models to consistently show perfect phasing and perfect amplification run after run. Just a smidge difference in timing in something will throw the models off.

I nominate you:

:guitar:
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Maine gets destroyed by the retrograde scenario...Ray is getting up into advisory snows by 120 hours, but not sure there would be much more after that.

Bal\DC 3 times........SE MA, CT, RI once, NYC once, NNE upslope, M WA and E NY twice....ORH CO once, ME once and now looks to be two.

Me.....0.

Unreal.

Even RIC got a decent event today.

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I nominate you:

:guitar:

It's just all about timing here and it's real close...were still "far enough" out to where the small differences in timing could mean getting nothing to getting over a foot of snow...it's just way too early to bail and way to early to really make any sort of bold call. Just have to be patient and continue to watch how the models handle the important factors at play.

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It's just all about timing here and it's real close...were still "far enough" out to where the small differences in timing could mean getting nothing to getting over a foot of snow...it's just way too early to bail and way to early to really make any sort of bold call. Just have to be patient and continue to watch how the models handle the important factors at play.

Maybe the 06z NAM can lead the charge. :snowman:

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Bal\DC 3 times........NYC once, M WA and E NY twice....ORH CO once, ME once and now looks to be two.

Me.....0.

Unreal.

Even RIC got a decent event today.

Get on board my train for 24 hours...if you don't like it, then I'll concede...but we are seeing massive shifts from run to run...if the Euro ensemble mean at 84 hours is going to flip by 300 miles, we know there is something very difficult about this system.

Even the vaunted Euro doesn't have enough armor to protect itself from this volatile pattern...the run to run swings from every model (including the Euro) have been staggering. Wes mentioned it on the radio show and I agreed....this is a very difficult pattern to resolve.

One thing majorly in our favor is that this trough on EVERY model is going negative with a decent vortmax at the based of it...whether its Virginia or south carolina, I think that would still produce a good event here...with differences being just how big and how far west. I will not be surprised to see future guidance come in with a much better looking sfc as it reflects off the better sampling of the vortmax at the base of the trough.

Give it a bit of time...we still have some ways to go...the same reason I told you were being way bullish on the HECS is the same reason now I'm telling to not get too worked up over one model suite. The changes have been drastic.

We can probably go through about 500 posts in the past 3 or 4 days with people claiming victory or defeat based on one run....obviously as we get closer, it matters more what they show, but we still have a lot of time before its a closed deal.

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I don't think this is over by a long shot despite the the Euro solution...the models have clearly been flip flopping in this setup as Wes and I discussed on the radio show.

As much as you are obviously rooting for a whiff, we'll see what the weather actually has to say about it. I'm not in the camp of marrying any solution when we are seeing flips like this...otherwise it leads to poor forecasting verification.

the southern low is a recent development... why should it be done changing? i am rooting for it to deepen more in the gulf and slow down

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Get on board my train for 24 hours...if you don't like it, then I'll concede...but we are seeing massive shifts from run to run...if the Euro ensemble mean at 84 hours is going to flip by 300 miles, we know there is something very difficult about this system.

Even the vaunted Euro doesn't have enough armor to protect itself from this volatile pattern...the run to run swings from every model (including the Euro) have been staggering. Wes mentioned it on the radio show and I agreed....this is a very difficult pattern to resolve.

One thing majorly in our favor is that this trough on EVERY model is going negative with a decent vortmax at the based of it...whether its Virginia or south carolina, I think that would still produce a good event here...with differences being just how big and how far west. I will not be surprised to see future guidance come in with a much better looking sfc as it reflects off the better sampling of the vortmax at the base of the trough.

Give it a bit of time...we still have some ways to go...the same reason I told you were being way bullish on the HECS is the same reason now I'm telling to not get too worked up over one model suite. The changes have been drastic.

We can probably go through about 500 posts in the past 3 or 4 days with people claiming victory or defeat based on one run....obviously as we get closer, it matters more what they show, but we still have a lot of time before its a closed deal.

This is probably one of the most annoying type of posts. Not sure how you can claim victory or defeat on a model run that's several days out...it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

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Get on board my train for 24 hours...if you don't like it, then I'll concede...but we are seeing massive shifts from run to run...if the Euro ensemble mean at 84 hours is going to flip by 300 miles, we know there is something very difficult about this system.

Even the vaunted Euro doesn't have enough armor to protect itself from this volatile pattern...the run to run swings from every model (including the Euro) have been staggering. Wes mentioned it on the radio show and I agreed....this is a very difficult pattern to resolve.

One thing majorly in our favor is that this trough on EVERY model is going negative with a decent vortmax at the based of it...whether its Virginia or south carolina, I think that would still produce a good event here...with differences being just how big and how far west. I will not be surprised to see future guidance come in with a much better looking sfc as it reflects off the better sampling of the vortmax at the base of the trough.

Give it a bit of time...we still have some ways to go...the same reason I told you were being way bullish on the HECS is the same reason now I'm telling to not get too worked up over one model suite. The changes have been drastic.

We can probably go through about 500 posts in the past 3 or 4 days with people claiming victory or defeat based on one run....obviously as we get closer, it matters more what they show, but we still have a lot of time before its a closed deal.

This year, whenever the merrygoround spins me into a pool of vomit, it stops.

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Get on board my train for 24 hours...if you don't like it, then I'll concede...but we are seeing massive shifts from run to run...if the Euro ensemble mean at 84 hours is going to flip by 300 miles, we know there is something very difficult about this system.

Even the vaunted Euro doesn't have enough armor to protect itself from this volatile pattern...the run to run swings from every model (including the Euro) have been staggering. Wes mentioned it on the radio show and I agreed....this is a very difficult pattern to resolve.

One thing majorly in our favor is that this trough on EVERY model is going negative with a decent vortmax at the based of it...whether its Virginia or south carolina, I think that would still produce a good event here...with differences being just how big and how far west. I will not be surprised to see future guidance come in with a much better looking sfc as it reflects off the better sampling of the vortmax at the base of the trough.

Give it a bit of time...we still have some ways to go...the same reason I told you were being way bullish on the HECS is the same reason now I'm telling to not get too worked up over one model suite. The changes have been drastic.

We can probably go through about 500 posts in the past 3 or 4 days with people claiming victory or defeat based on one run....obviously as we get closer, it matters more what they show, but we still have a lot of time before its a closed deal.

+1

This could be a memorable lead up if this storm somehow finds a way to deliver (or completely fail for that matter).

Heavy Heavy model swings

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This is probably one of the most annoying type of posts. Not sure how you can claim victory or defeat on a model run that's several days out...it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

We see it every single day on here...even in summer. Some people think they have it all figured out or are smarter than the models...it just doesn't work that way. Usually a skilled forecaster can augment the model solutions into a better forecast (I.E knowing their biases and larger scale pattern)...but that is impossible right now with so many moving parts. The one thing that makes me semi-confident is that we have a neg tilted trough with a "trending stronger" vortmax at the base of it...we'll see. I think that will normally do ok for us...not a HECS unless the whole things closes off south of us...but at least a moderate event.

But every scenario from a HECS to a whiff is still on the table.

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