2025-2026 ENSO

[mitchnick]

9 minutes ago, Spartman said:

Jonathan Wall apparently bringing up 2001-2002 regarding the Phase 8 MJO

https://x.com/_jwall/status/1997672498993762417

Maybe the case, I haven't checked, but November and the beginning of December that year was a polar opposite temp-wise in the east to this year. 

[MJO812]

1 hour ago, stadiumwave said:

 

There will be a warmup I think but hopefully short-lived.

It should be if there is a warmup. Lag in the MJO would put us near the holidays.

[mitchnick]

On 12/6/2025 at 9:22 AM, bluewave said:

Lake Superior is still the 2nd warmest on record since 1995 for December 5th.

https://apps.glerl.noaa.gov/coastwatch/webdata/statistic/pdf/all_year_glsea_avg_s.pdf

 

 

 

 

Odd. Oisst shows it predominantly below normal as of 12/6. Something isn't right, not that it matters. 

[BlizzardWx]

1 hour ago, raindancewx said:

The support for a warm up late month is this - implies a big storm in the Southwest gets stuck around Dec 21-25 in a Rex Block and floods the East with warmer air in that period. Probably doesn't last long. Then you revert back to canonical -WPO for a while. But, later on, six 6-10 days out, the same maps over NE Asia imply storms get cut off over the NM/AX/MX/TX borderlands either via weak subtropical impulses or lost waves from the Northern jet. If some of those eject east when it is cold, that's a better signal for the East for storms and cold, but that's very late in December, probably Dec 30 into week one of January. The deep blues over southern Kamchatka were last there late Oct to week one of Nov, when we had the three week stormier period in the Southwest from Nov 15-Dec 5 or so as the timing pretty much always works at a 17-21 day lead. Your call or not whether you believe it.

Do you see any decent winter weather opportunities for the southern plains moving forward? 

[GaWx]

3 hours ago, Spartman said:

Jonathan Wall apparently bringing up 2001-2002 regarding the Phase 8 MJO

https://x.com/_jwall/status/1997672498993762417

I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s not counting weak phase 8 (inside circle). But even so, these had outside the circle phase 8 in Dec since 2001:

2017: 

 

2009:

2007:

2002:

@mitchnick

[bluewave]

22 hours ago, BlizzardWx said:

I see you used the +/- 5 latitude VP. I know some sites use a broader area like +/- 15 degrees and with anomalies. Do you find this selection to be the most relevant? I'm still wading my way into understanding the MJO better.  

I attached some GEFS plots for the current precip and VP anomalies. I think a good chunk of what might be more 7-8 forcing is below 5 S with the record warm temperatures off of Australia. But I definitely see the 4-6 forcing within the +/- 5 latitude band too. 

These charts below do a good job showing the current burst of stronger forcing in the MJO 4-6 areas. I suspect it’s one of the reasons we aren’t getting the canonical MJO 8 even with the RMMS in that space. This is why I like to look at the total forcing when they are out of alignment with the RMMS.

Notice that the Pacific Jet hasn’t relaxed and we have a dominant northern stream. So even though we are experiencing a colder pattern since late November, the warmer storm track of the last 7 years hasn’t varied. This was the case during some of the colder intervals last winter also.

Models are beginning to come into better agreement for the relaxation of the cold as the falling AAM and MJO 4-6 forcing supports a broad ridge across the U.S. mid to late month. This is a seasonal shift that we have seen frequently approaching mid to late December over the last decade. We had a big jet extension last December at this time also when the temperatures moderated.
 

 

[snowman19]

7 minutes ago, bluewave said:

These charts below do a good job showing the current burst of stronger forcing in the MJO 4-6 areas. I suspect it’s one of the reasons we aren’t getting the canonical MJO 8 even with the RMMS in that space. This is why I like to look at the total forcing when they are out of alignment with the RMMS.

Notice that the Pacific Jet hasn’t relaxed and we have a dominant northern stream. So even though we are experiencing a colder pattern since late November, the warmer storm track of the last 7 years hasn’t varied. This was the case during some of the colder intervals last winter also.

Models are beginning to come into better agreement for the relaxation of the cold as the falling AAM and MJO 4-6 forcing supports a broad ridge across the U.S. mid to late month. This is a seasonal shift that we have seen frequently approaching mid to late December over the last decade. We had a big jet extension last December at this time also when the temperatures moderated.
 

 

As long as you have a standing wave there (phase 4-6), you aren’t going to see a classic canonical phase 8 response 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

10 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Notice that the Pacific Jet hasn’t relaxed and we have a dominant northern stream. So even though we are experiencing a colder pattern since late November, the warmer storm track of the last 7 years hasn’t varied. This was the case during some of the colder intervals last winter also.

The only time we really had a colder storm track was in 2017-18 and January 2022. Other than that, the classic storm track with a sharp cutoff south and east has been a recurrent theme since 2016-17 (that was even the case in many of the 2021 storms). That appears to continue this year. This doesn't bode well for snow lovers in coastal areas, like Atlantic City.

[MJO812]

19 minutes ago, snowman19 said:

As long as you have a standing wave there (phase 4-6), you aren’t going to see a classic canonical phase 8 response 

There is a lag in the MJO response . Lets see where we are at in a week. 

[MJO812]

38 minutes ago, bluewave said:

These charts below do a good job showing the current burst of stronger forcing in the MJO 4-6 areas. I suspect it’s one of the reasons we aren’t getting the canonical MJO 8 even with the RMMS in that space. This is why I like to look at the total forcing when they are out of alignment with the RMMS.

Notice that the Pacific Jet hasn’t relaxed and we have a dominant northern stream. So even though we are experiencing a colder pattern since late November, the warmer storm track of the last 7 years hasn’t varied. This was the case during some of the colder intervals last winter also.

Models are beginning to come into better agreement for the relaxation of the cold as the falling AAM and MJO 4-6 forcing supports a broad ridge across the U.S. mid to late month. This is a seasonal shift that we have seen frequently approaching mid to late December over the last decade. We had a big jet extension last December at this time also when the temperatures moderated.
 

 

The models have been correcting colder so far this month after showing warmth in the long range. I believe it will continue as along as the WPO stays negative. 

Look at the gefs correcting in the bottom imaging.  This month will end up being a cold month. Now hopefully snow will eventually come with it for areas near the coast. 

[donsutherland1]

9 minutes ago, MJO812 said:

The models have been correcting colder so far this month after showing warmth in the long range. I believe it will continue as along as the WPO stays negative. 

Look at the gefs correcting. 

Below is why a relaxation is possible during December 20-31. The WPO is forecast to become less negative while a PNA-, EPO+,AO+, NAO+ regime is largely in place. The WPO would no longer be sufficiently negative to offset the impact of unfavorable teleconnections. Fortunately, that's still far out where skill is low, so it's a plausible but not yet certain outcome.