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E PA/NJ/DE Winter 2023-2024 OBS/Discussion


The Iceman
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40 minutes ago, Birds~69 said:

Friday night/Saturday will be the most winter-ish weather we had in a  while. Couple of inches, snow on snow, temps in the teens/20s and windy....

18F

 

 

Said this yesterday: this model indicates near 5.5 inches for my location. I say bring it on. LMAO . But folks its not the snow amounts that interest me at this time.  For the first time in at least five years or more, we will have what I call the 3F's  1. fluffy  high ratio snows, 2. frigid temps and 3. frequent gusts of high winds near 35 mph. The 3F's will produce  a pretty good amount blowing of snow and drifting on local flat and or steep roads, especially in the countryside. As soon as the  plows open them up, they will be be clogged again within a few hours with drifting snow.  Now thats a real winter to me.   Mt Holly has not included blowing snow in their forecasts this evening. That is troublesome to me but I expect them to issue a special statement on the blowing snow scenario for Saturday by  Friday afternoon

 

Cannot wait for the blowing snow statement- just as good as a winter storm warning- Eye candy 

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12 minutes ago, Albedoman said:

Said this yesterday: this model indicates near 5.5 inches for my location. I say bring it on. LMAO . But folks its not the snow amounts that interest me at this time.  For the first time in at least five years or more, we will have what I call the 3F's  1. fluffy  high ratio snows, 2. frigid temps and 3. frequent gusts of high winds near 35 mph. The 3F's will produce  a pretty good amount blowing of snow and drifting on local flat and or steep roads, especially in the countryside. As soon as the  plows open them up, they will be be clogged again within a few hours with drifting snow.  Now thats a real winter to me.   Mt Holly has not included blowing snow in their forecasts this evening. That is troublesome to me but I expect them to issue a special statement on the blowing snow scenario for Saturday by  Friday afternoon

 

Cannot wait for the blowing snow statement- just as good as a winter storm warning- Eye candy 

What is a 'blowing snow statement'?

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4 minutes ago, MGorse said:

What is a 'blowing snow statement'?

sorry, Mike my age is showing. The current winter weather advisory should be continued into Saturday morning based on perhaps satisfying  part of this criteria below

  • Blowing snow advisory (WSW) – Sustained winds or frequent gusts of 25 to 35 miles per hour (40 to 56 km/h) accompanied by falling and blowing snow, occasionally reducing visibilities to 14 mile (0.40 km) or less, will occur for at least three hours. Discontinued beginning with the 2008-2009 winter storm season and replaced by the Winter Weather Advisory for Blowing Snow.[24]

If the criteria is not meant, then a special hazardous statement maybe issued similar to when there is black ice..  Anyway, blowing snow will be an issue in the rural areas.  Its been a real long time - before 2009 - since we have had this type of weather with high snow ratios and winds together and drivers will not be used to it thats for sure too. 

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12 minutes ago, Albedoman said:

sorry, Mike my age is showing. The current winter weather advisory should be continued into Saturday morning based on perhaps satisfying  part of this criteria below

  • Blowing snow advisory (WSW) – Sustained winds or frequent gusts of 25 to 35 miles per hour (40 to 56 km/h) accompanied by falling and blowing snow, occasionally reducing visibilities to 14 mile (0.40 km) or less, will occur for at least three hours. Discontinued beginning with the 2008-2009 winter storm season and replaced by the Winter Weather Advisory for Blowing Snow.[24]

If the criteria is not meant, then a special hazardous statement maybe issued similar to when there is black ice..  Anyway, blowing snow will be an issue in the rural areas.  Its been a real long time - before 2009 - since we have had this type of weather with high snow ratios and winds together and drivers will not be used to it thats for sure too. 

That will be reviewed again during today, but yes definitely looks like a good setup for a period of blowing and drifting snow.

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26 minutes ago, hazwoper said:

Not based on the mesos, which should be used at this point for small features such as inverted troughs

Agree the only thing that GFS and others will do is smooth things out for a general 1-3" the greatest potential to this event is to follow the dynamic models and meso models which hone in on the banding and lift over the inverted trough that will lie east to west across southern PA into Central NJ it will act as a conveyor belt for the moisture to track over almost like traning thudnerstorms in the summer.   The railroad track is being laid down as we speak with this weak disturbance pulling through. 

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We might be seeing some high ratio snow with this setup so I think the widespread 4-6" is a good call. With some luck and if this Norlun (which don't always show up on modeling) gets pumping the moisture somebody could Jackpot with 8" or 10" (maybe in Nantmeal, Huff's Church, Finland Village etc.). Although I think we'll be seeing more like 3-4" imby. 

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Just now, zenmsav6810 said:

We might be seeing some high ratio snow with this setup so I think the widespread 4-6" is a good call. With some luck and if this Norlun (which don't always show up on modeling) gets pumping the moisture somebody could Jackpot with 8" or 10" (maybe in Nantmeal, Huff's Church, Finland Village etc. . Although I think we'll be seeing more like 3-4" imby. 

I have also seen in these situations some enhancements as moisture is lifted into the modest hills as you move N and W of the fall line - glad I am not a professional forecaster. Feel like trying to predict exact t-storm totals....

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55 minutes ago, hazwoper said:

Not based on the mesos, which should be used at this point for small features such as inverted troughs

Hrrr is 4-7"

3k targets Baltimore and pts south of the Mason Dixon

Fv3 is a non event

12k is 1-3"

Pick your poison. I choose a #1 with cheese....whopper time!

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Been following along for weeks here, it's pretty cool how even in December we knew 1/5 to 1/22 would be a good period. I don't see the 4-6" happening as an amateur, none of the guidance really shows it unless you start nit picking around for stuff like the HRRR using kuchera ratio. 2-4" is such a solid bet for PHL S&E and maybe 3-5" N&W, ready to lock that in. 

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1 minute ago, Shenanagins1091 said:

Been following along for weeks here, it's pretty cool how even in December we knew 1/5 to 1/22 would be a good period. I don't see the 4-6" happening as an amateur, none of the guidance really shows it unless you start nit picking around for stuff like the HRRR using kuchera ratio. 2-4" is such a solid bet for PHL S&E and maybe 3-5" N&W, ready to lock that in. 

If I was making a forecast that sounds solid in my view.....but what do I know!!

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6 minutes ago, ChescoWx said:

If I was making a forecast that sounds solid in my view.....but what do I know!!

This seems to be the hot spot for our area at this point but we all know there's a good  chance it probably won't pan out exactly like this...

24F

 

 

hspot.jpg

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1 hour ago, Birds~69 said:

This seems to be the hot spot for our area at this point but we all know there's a good  chance it probably won't pan out exactly like this...

24F

 

 

hspot.jpg

That last run of the 3km NAM makes be think that red circle will come in further south then that....we shall see - it will probably move further north again next run

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As Agnes would say, it's ditty-bobbin' around. We're inside 24hrs now, so we're moving into now-casting (then we enter the final stage of weenie tracking: radar hallucination). Going with 2-3" imby with lollies of 4".

28F/DP 10F

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Something to watch later next week during the 'relax' pattern as it starts to transition.  Several ops and ens members have been hinting at a well-time HP moving along the NE with good placement as moisture runs up from the South. Would take a good bit of things to go right, but since guidance had been hinting figured it was worth mentioning at least. Here's the GFS depiction:

gfs_mslp_pcpn_frzn_neus_33.png

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40 minutes ago, Ralph Wiggum said:

Something to watch later next week during the 'relax' pattern as it starts to transition.  Several ops and ens members have been hinting at a well-time HP moving along the NE with good placement as moisture runs up from the South. Would take a good bit of things to go right, but since guidance had been hinting figured it was worth mentioning at least. Here's the GFS depiction:

gfs_mslp_pcpn_frzn_neus_33.png

FWIW probably a quick 1-3" then a flip to rain in SE PA. 

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