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George BM

September Banter 2020

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Grew up with no A/C in a Baltimore row home.  Parents had a window unit in their bedroom only and kept it  set on like 65 with the door shut as well . I swear you could see your breath in that room it was that cold. Brother and I had our bedroom on top floor with no ceiling fans.  We just kept window open and hoped for a breeze:twister: . Lots of sweating ourselves to sleep up till age 14 when we moved to Carroll county. 

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@losetoa6 our kids now have it so easy. I often tell them that not until I was in HS did we have a car with AC in it. Used to do the good old 60/40 in the Surburan. And my sister and I would usually end up all the way in the back due to my brothers telling us that is where we were to ride. And on those rare chances of sitting in the middle row our hair was always a knotted mess. 

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1 hour ago, Mrs.J said:

@losetoa6 our kids now have it so easy. I often tell them that not until I was in HS did we have a car with AC in it. Used to do the good old 60/40 in the Surburan. And my sister and I would usually end up all the way in the back due to my brothers telling us that is where we were to ride. And on those rare chances of sitting in the middle row our hair was always a knotted mess. 

My parents had a 1975 AMC Pacer AKA " The bubble car. AKA " The sweat box ". NO A/C LOL. JUST a case of windex in the trunk to keep all the glass clean :lmao:

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, losetoa6 said:

My parents had a 1975 AMC Pacer AKA " The bubble car. AKA " The sweat box ". NO A/C LOL. JUST a case of windex in the trunk to keep all the glass clean :lmao:

 

 

 

PhotoPictureResizer_200909_171825081_crop_1386x868.jpg

Even the all time ugliest cars can be made cool.

BangShift.com Found: An AMC Pacer That Nobody Should Be Embarrassed To Be  Seen In, 401 And All - BangShift.com

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I had to put a box fan in the window to get air at night.  I grew upon main street in Manchester and always remember the fire siren going off at 2:00 am....what a wake up call in the middle of a hot summer night!

My mother still doesn't have central air,  just a few window units, which she never really uses.  

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15 minutes ago, nw baltimore wx said:

Not so much.

Dude. I would take that all day long over the Pontiac Aztek

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6 hours ago, mappy said:

Busted coil. Guy didn't have the part, so now we wait for that. I will say, I am glad its September and not July. But the mugginess is awful right now. 

Oh crud.  Sorry to hear that.  That lends to a lot of questions.  Happy to offer a few more thoughts and can follow up offline if you ard/or Mr. Mappy want.  Know a fair bit about AC units having done a fair bit of troubleshooting while living overseas in some harsh environments, and worked on our own here in NOVA too and saved a lot in the process.    

The mention of a bad coil points to a fairly old unit.  Normally coils are either air tight, or not.  If there is any leak in the system at all, with the pressures involved the freon will quickly leak out and the low pressure switch will turn off the compressor to keep it from burning up.  The compressor is big bucks if it dies and is typically not repairable - they can only be replaced.

There's two coils in an AC system - the evaporator coil (the one inside your house that gets cold) and the condenser coil (outside with the compressor, which gets hot).  Which coil was quoted as being bad?  Replacing the coil inside can be a major pain depending on the configuration of the air handler and the design of your system.  Assume he used a sniffer to detect the leak?  A freon sniffer is very sensitive and a good one can pinpoint the leak's exact location.  Coils typically don't leak except after extreme age or if a unit is moved in such a way that stress is applied to the line over time. 

With a bad coil, and if the unit is circa 15 years old or older, and if the bad coil is the condenser coil, it may be more reliable and in the end cheaper to just replace the outside unit.  Older units use R-22 freon, which is outrageously expensive as mentioned before.  New units use R-410a, which is a fraction of the cost of R-22 (R-22 is 4-5X the cost of 410a).  Plus, newer AC units have a much higher Seer rating - the higher the Seer number the better with the max being in the low 20's.  By "better" we mean they are more efficient and draw less electricity and save money - perhaps a lot if the current AC unit is 20 years old or older.  The difference in operating cost of a AC unit rated with a Seer of 15 verses a Seer of 20 is substantial (there's various charts you can lookup online).

 The newer AC technologies include variable speed compressors and larger condenser coils when allows lower fan speeds on the compressor unit outside with much less noise.  We have 3 zones in our house and just installed a new outdoor unit a year ago.   The difference in the lower noise when the two outdoor units (old and new) are running side by side is amazing.  One older unit is circa 2005 technology, which is not THAT old - but the difference in technology is obvious.  Our electric bill went down substantially with the installation of the newer more efficient unit, even though it has a higher cooling capacity.  

Lastly, if the solution is to replace the AC, suggest getting multiple estimates.  When our until died last year, we got 3 estimates.  One from the company that normally did our maintenance, and two from other reputable companies.  Two of the 3 were comparable in prices (within 10% of each other) and the 3rd was more than 2x the other two.  The company we went with was able to start immediately and provided references to back their work, who I called.  Could not have been happier with the work they did end to end.  The 3rd company that was 2X the other two readily acknowledged he was expensive and didn't seem to care that he was SO expensive compared to the others.  He even told me that even at his price he had more work than he could handle.  

Good luck. 

 

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1 hour ago, CAPE said:

Even the all time ugliest cars can be made cool.

BangShift.com Found: An AMC Pacer That Nobody Should Be Embarrassed To Be  Seen In, 401 And All - BangShift.com

OMG - what memories.  The Pacer was right up there with the Matador.  Our next door neighbor growing up in Ohio had a Pacer - for about a  year.  He gave away to avoid the ridicule he received when he drove it.  Passenger's side door was 4" longer than the driver's door to make it easier to get in the back.  

The Pacer was the same era as our Chevy Chevette, which I learned to drive in.  What a POS that was, until I rolled it late one night...  That took care of that.  The only thing good about the Chevette was that it wasn't my dad's red and white 65 Rambler with 3 on the tree.  My 3 older siblings all learned to drive in the Rambler.  Yet, somehow they all accused me of getting off easy because the Chevette was an automatic!!!  yippie???  It had a 2 speed Powerglide tranny coupled to the infamous 1.6 liter Iron Duke 4.  It could not get out of it's own way if it fell off a cliff, even with a 4.10 rear end.  That was life in the late 70's post Arab Oil Embargo...   

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46 minutes ago, RDM said:

OMG - what memories.  The Pacer was right up there with the Matador.  Our next door neighbor growing up in Ohio had a Pacer - for about a  year.  He gave away to avoid the ridicule he received when he drove it.  Passenger's side door was 4" longer than the driver's door to make it easier to get in the back.  

The Pacer was the same era as our Chevy Chevette, which I learned to drive in.  What a POS that was, until I rolled it late one night...  That took care of that.  The only thing good about the Chevette was that it wasn't my dad's red and white 65 Rambler with 3 on the tree.  My 3 older siblings all learned to drive in the Rambler.  Yet, somehow they all accused me of getting off easy because the Chevette was an automatic!!!  yippie???  It had a 2 speed Powerglide tranny coupled to the infamous 1.6 liter Iron Duke 4.  It could not get out of it's own way if it fell off a cliff, even with a 4.10 rear end.  That was life in the late 70's post Arab Oil Embargo...   

Dude the mid 60s Rambler was a car you you do something with. Light weight and decent clean square lines. I was a huge fan of the mid 60s Chevy II. My first car was a 1964 2 door sport coupe.I hot rodded that up. I always wanted a 66 or 67 L79 option with the 327/350 hp vette engine. That is a clean looking machine and was a a legit sleeper. Very sought after today.

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52 minutes ago, RDM said:

OMG - what memories.  The Pacer was right up there with the Matador.  Our next door neighbor growing up in Ohio had a Pacer - for about a  year.  He gave away to avoid the ridicule he received when he drove it.  Passenger's side door was 4" longer than the driver's door to make it easier to get in the back.  

The Pacer was the same era as our Chevy Chevette, which I learned to drive in.  What a POS that was, until I rolled it late one night...  That took care of that.  The only thing good about the Chevette was that it wasn't my dad's red and white 65 Rambler with 3 on the tree.  My 3 older siblings all learned to drive in the Rambler.  Yet, somehow they all accused me of getting off easy because the Chevette was an automatic!!!  yippie???  It had a 2 speed Powerglide tranny coupled to the infamous 1.6 liter Iron Duke 4.  It could not get out of it's own way if it fell off a cliff, even with a 4.10 rear end.  That was life in the late 70's post Arab Oil Embargo...   

 

I got a "Vette".....

A " Chevette":lol:

 

Yep...remember the longer door well . Good catch. 

Iron Duke 4 lolz..

The American made 4 cylinder in the 70s and 80s and into part of the 90s was total junk with no hp either .

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I'll never forget my trip to Florida in this  88' Yugo my uncle rented . It sounded like it was going to explode at its max speed of 55 mph lol. I believe it was a 3 cylinder making  like a scant 55 hp

 

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This is pretty close to what mine looked like. Same year. Hardtop, and almost the exact same color. Same stance. Mine had Fenton brushed aluminum slotted wheels.

LS1tech.com twin turbo LSX Nova Ls1 Ls6 5.3 truck Vortec motor swap craigslist find

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1 hour ago, RDM said:

OMG - what memories.  The Pacer was right up there with the Matador.  Our next door neighbor growing up in Ohio had a Pacer - for about a  year.  He gave away to avoid the ridicule he received when he drove it.  Passenger's side door was 4" longer than the driver's door to make it easier to get in the back.  

The Pacer was the same era as our Chevy Chevette, which I learned to drive in.  What a POS that was, until I rolled it late one night...  That took care of that.  The only thing good about the Chevette was that it wasn't my dad's red and white 65 Rambler with 3 on the tree.  My 3 older siblings all learned to drive in the Rambler.  Yet, somehow they all accused me of getting off easy because the Chevette was an automatic!!!  yippie???  It had a 2 speed Powerglide tranny coupled to the infamous 1.6 liter Iron Duke 4.  It could not get out of it's own way if it fell off a cliff, even with a 4.10 rear end.  That was life in the late 70's post Arab Oil Embargo...   

OMG my mom used to have a Chevette! All 4 of us kids would pile into the silver rabbit we called it. My brothers were teenagers at the time so my sister and I always drew the short straw and one of us had to sit in the hatch. :lol:

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2 hours ago, losetoa6 said:

I'll never forget my trip to Florida in this  88' Yugo my uncle rented . It sounded like it was going to explode at its max speed of 55 mph lol. I believe it was a 3 cylinder making  like a scant 55 hp

 

PhotoPictureResizer_200909_195440024_crop_1112x693.jpg

The Yugo is right down there, but above the infamous Trabant.  Will never forget....   I lived in Frankfurt, Germany when the wall came down Oct 1990 reunifying East and West Germany.  Fkt was only about 80 miles from the former border.  So as soon as the border opened the former East Germans flooded the shopping centers in the West.  The Zeil in Fkt was and remains one of the most popular shopping spots in Germany.    

Was driving home from work at the height of the onslaught that Winter behind a Trabant packed with way too many people teeming with all their newly purchased western goods.  It was cold, the windows were all steamed over as the driver was alternating trying to peer through a small splotch of transparent glass in the windshield and sticking his head out the drivers door open window to see where the heck he was going (that's how I could see how packed it was inside as all the other windows were completely opaque with condensation).  The occupants were laughing and screaming and carrying on like it was Mardi Gras.  

On the rear bumper of the Trabi (nickname for the Trabants) was the best bumper sticker in the history of bumper stickers.  It read, in English, "My Other Car is a Trabant Also".  The scene was so comical I about crashed my Honda Civic.  Normally, you expect a bumper sticker that's bragging about the "other car" to reference the Ferrari, Benz or Rolls in the garage at home.  Noooooo - this guy was so "proud" of his Trabi he wanted everyone to know he had another one and was broadcasting the same in English!  At the next traffic light I rolled down the window on my Civic and gave them a "Herzliche Wellkommen Zuruck" (A heartfelt welcome back) and the hoard in the Trabi just laughed even louder and kept carrying on.  The light turned green and in a big cloud of blue smoke they trod forward (many had 2 cycle engines and burning a lot of oil was the norm).  

My comparison, the Yugo's were 4 cycle and very modern by comparison (relatively speaking).  They resembled the Chevette in design and proportions.  

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1 hour ago, Mrs.J said:

OMG my mom used to have a Chevette! All 4 of us kids would pile into the silver rabbit we called it. My brothers were teenagers at the time so my sister and I always drew the short straw and one of us had to sit in the hatch. :lol:

That's hilarious.  My parents bought our "Shove-It" in Nov 75 just after they went on sale.  The 76 model year was the first year of production.  Didn't even have AC as an option until later.  So our AC was the windows.  Fortunately, my dad insisted on getting the "larger" engine - the 1.6L compared to the standard 1.4L, which was an even worse dog to drive.

Remember having to carry a baseball bat behind the driver's seat all the way through HS and then part way through college (until I rolled it).  The starter had a dead spot and had to routinely open the hood and bang the handle of the bat on the starter to "bump" it through to start it.  Suspect there's some other old timers out there that know what I mean by "bumping a starter".   

I was lucky when I rolled the Chevette - didn't get hurt but totaled the car.  Was not sorry to see it go though.  The 71 Caprice 2 door hard top my dad picked up as a replacement for $150 ran like a scalded cat, had a front bench and even had working AC.  Couldn't put anything in the trunk though because the rear fenders were so rusted out anything in the trunk was likely to fall out.  

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7 hours ago, WxWatcher007 said:

Now that’s a car

 

6 hours ago, RDM said:

Now we're talking!!!  Sweeeeeet!!!

I love the clean, boxy look of the mid 60s cars in general. The  66-67 Chevy II (Nova) was the best of that style imo. The L79 package in a car that weighed about 2600 lbs made for a really fun ride. These are a favorite today for restomodding. Most people put an actual frame under it, as the early unibody design was not good with all that power and torque.

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2 hours ago, CAPE said:

 

I love the clean, boxy look of the mid 60s cars in general. The  66-67 Chevy II (Nova) was the best of that style imo. The L79 package in a car that weighed about 2600 lbs made for a really fun ride. These are a favorite today for restomodding. Most people put an actual frame under it, as the early unibody design was not good with all that power and torque.

Yea...me too. Imo ...to make it a real clean though I'd black out the bumpers and trim to match . B)

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12 hours ago, RDM said:

Oh crud.  Sorry to hear that.  That lends to a lot of questions.  Happy to offer a few more thoughts and can follow up offline if you ard/or Mr. Mappy want.  Know a fair bit about AC units having done a fair bit of troubleshooting while living overseas in some harsh environments, and worked on our own here in NOVA too and saved a lot in the process.    

The mention of a bad coil points to a fairly old unit.  Normally coils are either air tight, or not.  If there is any leak in the system at all, with the pressures involved the freon will quickly leak out and the low pressure switch will turn off the compressor to keep it from burning up.  The compressor is big bucks if it dies and is typically not repairable - they can only be replaced.

There's two coils in an AC system - the evaporator coil (the one inside your house that gets cold) and the condenser coil (outside with the compressor, which gets hot).  Which coil was quoted as being bad?  Replacing the coil inside can be a major pain depending on the configuration of the air handler and the design of your system.  Assume he used a sniffer to detect the leak?  A freon sniffer is very sensitive and a good one can pinpoint the leak's exact location.  Coils typically don't leak except after extreme age or if a unit is moved in such a way that stress is applied to the line over time. 

With a bad coil, and if the unit is circa 15 years old or older, and if the bad coil is the condenser coil, it may be more reliable and in the end cheaper to just replace the outside unit.  Older units use R-22 freon, which is outrageously expensive as mentioned before.  New units use R-410a, which is a fraction of the cost of R-22 (R-22 is 4-5X the cost of 410a).  Plus, newer AC units have a much higher Seer rating - the higher the Seer number the better with the max being in the low 20's.  By "better" we mean they are more efficient and draw less electricity and save money - perhaps a lot if the current AC unit is 20 years old or older.  The difference in operating cost of a AC unit rated with a Seer of 15 verses a Seer of 20 is substantial (there's various charts you can lookup online).

 The newer AC technologies include variable speed compressors and larger condenser coils when allows lower fan speeds on the compressor unit outside with much less noise.  We have 3 zones in our house and just installed a new outdoor unit a year ago.   The difference in the lower noise when the two outdoor units (old and new) are running side by side is amazing.  One older unit is circa 2005 technology, which is not THAT old - but the difference in technology is obvious.  Our electric bill went down substantially with the installation of the newer more efficient unit, even though it has a higher cooling capacity.  

Lastly, if the solution is to replace the AC, suggest getting multiple estimates.  When our until died last year, we got 3 estimates.  One from the company that normally did our maintenance, and two from other reputable companies.  Two of the 3 were comparable in prices (within 10% of each other) and the 3rd was more than 2x the other two.  The company we went with was able to start immediately and provided references to back their work, who I called.  Could not have been happier with the work they did end to end.  The 3rd company that was 2X the other two readily acknowledged he was expensive and didn't seem to care that he was SO expensive compared to the others.  He even told me that even at his price he had more work than he could handle.  

Good luck. 

 

hey thanks! so we had the whole furnace/ac unit replaced in winter of 2014, so its still fairly new. my understanding is its the coil inside.  I did notice that there was a lot of ice build up outside on the unit, at the junction where the hose connects to the unit itself before running into the house. was a solid block of ice around that junction area. the leak the guy fixed the first time was inside. I also noticed a weird whistle coming from the inside unit tuesday afternoon when it broke again, which Mr Map said was because of the busted coil. 

other than that, i dont know much else. Mr Map was dealing with the HVAC guy the last two days while I was on school duty. 

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while on the topic of cars, my aunt posted this picture of her and i on FB. no idea what car it is, but the pic is from the mid-80s. i was so cute and sassy

car.jpg

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30 minutes ago, mappy said:

while on the topic of cars, my aunt posted this picture of her and i on FB. no idea what car it is, but the pic is from the mid-80s. i was so cute and sassy

car.jpg

"Was"?

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3 minutes ago, 40westwx said:

"Was"?

Ha! still sassy!

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24 minutes ago, mappy said:

hey thanks! so we had the whole furnace/ac unit replaced in winter of 2014, so its still fairly new. my understanding is its the coil inside.  I did notice that there was a lot of ice build up outside on the unit, at the junction where the hose connects to the unit itself before running into the house. was a solid block of ice around that junction area. the leak the guy fixed the first time was inside. I also noticed a weird whistle coming from the inside unit tuesday afternoon when it broke again, which Mr Map said was because of the busted coil. 

other than that, i dont know much else. Mr Map was dealing with the HVAC guy the last two days while I was on school duty. 

Mappy - a 2014 unit is still considered new, so you should not be having leaking coil issues.  Was the ice on the line outside the house near the compressor?  (the compressor section is the large boxy looking component outside the house with a large fan on it that comes on with the AC).  If there's ice on one of the freon lines outside the house, that's not a good sign.  It means the evaporation point of the freon has shifted from the evaporation coil inside the air handler (where you want it to be) to a point down the low pressure line.  Was the ice present on that line before the technician added freon the other day?  If not, and the ice only developed after he added freon to the system he may have over charged the system.  

Is there any ice on the freon lines where they exit from the air handler?  Any sign of ice on the air handler itself?  If so, the coil may be frozen with ice.   Check the condensate drain inside the air handler (in the basement?).  If the condensate drain clogs up, the water fills the condensate tray under the coil until the water touches the coil.  Once the water level gets to the coil, the condensate quickly turns to ice and the ice level migrates up the coil until the entire coil and condensate tray is one solid block of ice.  This can happen fairly quickly with a clogged drain.  If there's no air flow from the registers around the house, that's because no air can get through the evaporator coil due to the ice. 

If the condensate drain is clogged, the technician should have zeroed in on this during the inspection.  Was there any water laying on the floor in the area around the air handler?  If so, that was water that overflowed the condensate drain and/or ice that thawed from the coil.  Be careful, with an electrically charged air handler, water laying around is a potential shock risk.   With the clogged drain there's no place for the water to escape.  Clogged condensate drains happen rather frequently.  On houses with 2 or more HVAC zones, there's often an air handler in the attic.  These air handlers are installed on top of a large tray that is used to catch overflow condensate when the drain clogs.  There's a float switch in the tray that shuts off the air handler to prevent the overflow tray from filling up and running over, which would damage drywall in the ceiling etc.  I only raise this because I'm not sure where your HVAC unit inside the house is located.  

If the condensate drain is clogged, you may be able to fix it yourself.  Turn off the AC at the breaker panel.  There will be two breakers - one for the outside AC compressor and a separate breaker for the air handler.  Open the side access panel/s to air handler near where the two freon lines go in and out of the air handler.  If the coil is iced up, that should be easily noticed.  Need to let the ice thaw in order to find the drain in the condensate tray and unclog it.  The ice could go down the condensate drain hose too, which can take a while to thaw.  

Look for a piece of 3/4 or 1" diameter PVC pipe exiting the air handler IVO the two freon lines.  This is your condensate drain.  It likely runs to a drain in the floor nearby or to a small pump that pumps the condensate water to a drain someplace else.  If there is a drain in the floor, see if there's water coming out.  If there's a small pump, check to see if it is working properly (just pour some water in it - the condensate pumps are auto on/off).

Hope this helps too.      

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