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2 hours ago, WestMichigan said:

But it is ok for someone from out of state to go to a cabin/cottage they own in Michigan?  Or it is OK for 6 road workers to be standing in a circle shoulder to shoulder talking about something while working to repair the roads?  The rules only apply to those the governor wants them to and there are clearly some who do not fall under the rules like the rest of us.

Both of those I would adjust or eliminate, you are expecting it to be perfect, politics is far from it but don't let perfect be the enemy of better. This is unprecedented shit and outside of a few things she had done as good of job as many other governors in this country. 

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4 hours ago, Stebo said:

I trust restaurants and fast food more than the grocery store right now. Interaction with people is very limited with restaurants and this isn't a foodborne virus. Do you trust the hundreds of people in a grocery store not having Corona? There were 4 cases of Kroger workers who died in the past week in the metro area.

Been getting groceries delivered to minimize the risk along with door dash delivery once a week for morale

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5 minutes ago, Cary67 said:

Been getting groceries delivered to minimize the risk along with door dash delivery once a week for morale

Yeah and if you clean your groceries (what a saying to say), then you should be fine. I am just worried about being in the store with a lot of people and people tend to pick stuff up and put it back on shelves which concerns me as well.

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12 hours ago, Stebo said:

Both of those I would adjust or eliminate, you are expecting it to be perfect, politics is far from it but don't let perfect be the enemy of better. This is unprecedented shit and outside of a few things she had done as good of job as many other governors in this country. 

I am not expecting perfection, just common sense.  If the government can keep working then why can't everyone else?  Oh wait, they aren't essential, but when my neighbor loses his job and can't feed his family tell me that isn't essential to him.  Who gets to decide?  Oh wait, it is those in power and they generally hurt others long before they feel any pain themselves.  When is the governor going to say I will take a pay cut or no salary?  When are the Lt. Governor or state representatives and senators or a myriad of other people in higher places going to stand with the common folk and live by the same rules and restrictions.  How many press conferences do you see people standing closer than 6 feet?  Or the mayor of Chicago getting a hair cut while everyone else can't, or ...  the list could go on.  Be reasonable, have equal rules for all and apply some common sense and I think there would be a lot less complaining among the citizens.

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10 hours ago, WestMichigan said:

I am not expecting perfection, just common sense.  If the government can keep working then why can't everyone else?  Oh wait, they aren't essential, but when my neighbor loses his job and can't feed his family tell me that isn't essential to him.  Who gets to decide?  Oh wait, it is those in power and they generally hurt others long before they feel any pain themselves.  When is the governor going to say I will take a pay cut or no salary?  When are the Lt. Governor or state representatives and senators or a myriad of other people in higher places going to stand with the common folk and live by the same rules and restrictions.  How many press conferences do you see people standing closer than 6 feet?  Or the mayor of Chicago getting a hair cut while everyone else can't, or ...  the list could go on.  Be reasonable, have equal rules for all and apply some common sense and I think there would be a lot less complaining among the citizens.

If you can't understand why keeping the government running I don't know what to say. As for your neighbor I hope he has filed for unemployment like everyone else that is laid off and that supplements his income lost until things reopen some time next month. Most press conferences people have been apart at least at the state/city levels. National level is pretty obvious why that is that case.

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Lightfoot taking a pic with the woman who cut her hair was definitely a mistake on her part.  I don't know what the circumstances were (did the person come to Lightfoot's house, did Lightfoot go there, etc) but it just gives people ammo.  Next time maybe get your hair cut in secret Lori.  :P

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44 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Lightfoot taking a pic with the woman who cut her hair was definitely a mistake on her part.  I don't know what the circumstances were (did the person come to Lightfoot's house, did Lightfoot go there, etc) but it just gives people ammo.  Next time maybe get your hair cut in secret Lori.  :P

Or better yet don’t get it cut like the rest of us. 

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52 minutes ago, Stebo said:

If you can't understand why keeping the government running I don't know what to say. As for your neighbor I hope he has filed for unemployment like everyone else that is laid off and that supplements his income lost until things reopen some time next month. Most press conferences people have been apart at least at the state/city levels. National level is pretty obvious why that is that case.

What makes a government clerk any more important than a construction worker. Without either our society wouldn’t function like it does. The problem with unemployment is it doesn’t pay the bills. And where are they getting the money?  People aren’t working so it isn’t income taxes. We are just mortgaging our future. I know you want to get in a fight with me but all I want is common sense restrictions that are equally applied. This isn’t a disease to ignore. I am not saying that. Lots of people have it and many have died. I am not disputing that but how does a single self employed construction worker have to quit working when he is working by himself in an unoccupied home?  Like I said apply common sense and people will be less irritated. 

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I think the big issue with Michigan is how draconian the governors laws have been. I understand it's a serious issue in the state, but there is no argument with the fact that Lansing has gotten extreme with its tactics. 

They've made it illegal to buy non-essential goods at the store? It's illegal to travel between two residences you own? Golf is not allowed? Who the bleep is the government to tell me what I can and can't buy at Lowes lol. 

 

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3 hours ago, WestMichigan said:

What makes a government clerk any more important than a construction worker. Without either our society wouldn’t function like it does. The problem with unemployment is it doesn’t pay the bills. And where are they getting the money?  People aren’t working so it isn’t income taxes. We are just mortgaging our future. I know you want to get in a fight with me but all I want is common sense restrictions that are equally applied. This isn’t a disease to ignore. I am not saying that. Lots of people have it and many have died. I am not disputing that but how does a single self employed construction worker have to quit working when he is working by himself in an unoccupied home?  Like I said apply common sense and people will be less irritated. 

Look I get it but you are talking about a very specific scenario in the grand scheme of things and honestly having construction work slow down is good because it allows for the n95 masks to be available. Most construction workers use them as well, same with painters, drywallers, etc.

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Indiana governor suggested that he may be making tweaks to the stay at home order by the end of this week (order is set to expire April 20).  Perhaps some kind of adjustment (loosening?) to the restrictions but we'll see.  He did say he has been in contact with the governors in Illinois and Michigan on how to move forward but idk if that necessarily means that all the states will do things at the same time.

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4 hours ago, nwohweather said:

I think the big issue with Michigan is how draconian the governors laws have been. I understand it's a serious issue in the state, but there is no argument with the fact that Lansing has gotten extreme with its tactics. 

They've made it illegal to buy non-essential goods at the store? It's illegal to travel between two residences you own? Golf is not allowed? Who the bleep is the government to tell me what I can and can't buy at Lowes lol. 

 

You understand it’s serious, but you’d still rather be able to have more avenues to spread this extremely contagious disease?

A golf game and other non-essentials are more important to you than the pain and suffering this disease has caused and will continue to cause? 

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4 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Indiana governor suggested that he may be making tweaks to the stay at home order by the end of this week (order is set to expire April 20).  Perhaps some kind of adjustment (loosening?) to the restrictions but we'll see.  He did say he has been in contact with the governors in Illinois and Michigan on how to move forward but idk if that necessarily means that all the states will do things at the same time.

  So what is going to happen.  First thing I have a question about is the hospitality industry.  This industry is absolutely taking the biggest hit with these social distancing orders. Mom and pop restaurants are already getting crushed by the corporate drive through joints, heck even places like corporate Olive Garden type restaurants are getting killed by the Hardees of the country.  How are these businesses going to open back up, exercise facilities, theaters, bars, anyplace that people congregate.  Another thing is, what about folks who work at businesses that won't be allowed to open back up.  There is a clause in the unemployment benefits that the feds said they would help with the extra 600 dollars a week (which doesnt kick in until next week in IN) will go through 7/31. They can revoke that if they decide to.  The freeze on utility bills and rent payment repercussions, are those going to be lifted as soon as the economy gets reopened?  Are utilities going to suddenly go around and disconnect folks who are either getting back to work or are still waiting for the extra UE benefits or stimulus money trying to get caught back up?  Landlords evicting, banks foreclosing without a reasonable chance for some to get caught back up?  Whats the reasonable time frame for that chance? Are people going to have to prove that they deserve continued help to get back to work in order to keep getting assistance in the short term?  Small businesses that took the paycheck loans, they have to pay those back while at the same time trying to recover their business if they are lucky enough to open back up.  What about the employees in the service industry that are already risking their lives for not that great of a paycheck, are they going to be exposed even more? There's a myriad of other issues.

  I agree we need to open the economy up like nobody's business.  But the states better have their shit together doing it.  There's going to be a lot of inequality when a restaurant or daycare center or theater can open in WY but none can in CO.  It sucks, but IMHO we just can reopen statewide and/or nationwide until we have sufficient testing.  It's not a matter of oppressive government, it's a matter of social responsibility.  Lord knows I want to get back to work, and I'm sure there are many others who want to.   

  We HAVE to get a sufficient testing system in place before we pull the 69 VW we're in back onto the interstate.  If not I'm afraid there's gonna be a pile up that will shut that interstate down for a very long time.

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1 hour ago, Jackstraw said:

The executive office of the country has claimed absolute power over everyone (was only a matter of time) so all arguments are moot now.  Let's all just fall in line and follow our supreme leader :facepalm:

Yeah not to be political but what he says is only causing more harm than good. He'd be better off having the doctors and Pence talk but ego gets in the way.

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  I'm not a social media person.  I don't tweet, twitch, tchwat, face or anything.  This board is about as social media as I'll ever get.  Hoosier can delete this post if he needs to, I understand.

  One of my best friends I've ever had lost his life to this around noon today.  He was perfectly healthy, no underlying conditions.  He was 10 years my junior at 48, had worked his way up from being a dishwasher at my restaurant back in the 90's to becoming a partner in that business with my brother and I to getting a PHD in 2017 in social psychology.  He was my roommate for 5 years, my friend, my adventure buddy from kayaking to rock climbing to just about anything that made you feel alive to anything stupid enough to get you killed.  He kept my "Old Man" arrogance in check while pushing me to not be "The Old Man".  Most of all we listened to each other, really listened, something that's hard to come by nowadays. He married a wonderful woman he met who was waitressing at our restaurant and they have 4 awesome kids.  She went from a waitress to being a pediatric RN. 

  He started feeling bad the last week of March.  He and I were talking on the phone and I asked him if he was ok because I could just tell something wasn't right..   He told me he was fine just felt like a little cold.  With what was going on and being someone like me who very seldom gets sick with colds flu or anything I asked him if he was concerned.  That's when he told me he had already self contained himself in their garage by then so I knew he knew something was up. 3 days later his wife called us and was really getting concerned.  She said he had a 102 temp that wasn't moving.  He's a stubborn prick like I am so she asked me to talk to him.  I talked to him on the phone over the next couple days and it was very noticeable he was getting worse.  By the 3rd of April he conceded something was really wrong, really wrong.  She got him to the hospital the following day, they tested him but since they had a good quarantine set up at home, plus they live on 5 acres in the country, and he wasn't in the high risk category sent him home.  When he conceded he was sick it just got worse.  I talked to him 2 maybe 3 times a day, either skype or just the phone.  Thats when he started getting scared.  I mean you could hear the subtle fear in his voice, the struggle to breathe, you could see it in his face.  He was trying to stay cool for his wife and kids but she knew.  I was scared for him.  We would talk and do the he's young and healthy enough drill that he'd make it through.  They got the result of the test back the 6th and it was positive.  She tried to get him admitted to the hospital last Tuesday but even though he was positive he didn't adhere to the criteria needed in FL to be admitted.  He finally got so bad last Thursday night she had to call an ambulance and they admitted him.  He was in ICU on Friday, that's the last time I talked to him.  They intubated him Friday evening and  he succombed Monday.

  The only reason I'm posting this is because this ain't the damn flu.  This was a perfectly healthy active 48 year old man  It took it 3 weeks to take him but it took him.  Not a weak man, not someone who gives up, not someone who cowers in front of adversity.  A true survivor that overcame hurtles in his life that most of us would or will never have to face.  

  I'm still numb to this.  I won't be able to pay my respects at a funeral.  I couldn't and can't jump on a plane and embrace his wife, his 3 kids in college, his one still at home.  He and I were both cynical about this back in January, lets just get it and we'll be immune come fall when it comes back like the flu.  This ain't the damn flu and it will kill anyone who doesn't take it seriously and doesn't treat it with respect and with the responsibility we all have to our family friends and neighbors.  This story is one of millions worldwide.  Please be safe everyone and truly think about others before you think about your wallet.

 

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I'm very sorry for your loss Jack. From your description, he sounds like the type friend that everyone wishes they had and needs. My prayers go out to you and his family. My job has me right in the middle of this and that story just breaks my heart.

In my position, I can't express my political views. I have to be apolitical. That being said, I know that it is water under the bridge now, but when the CDC declared a public health emergency on January 30th, THAT's when action should have been taken, not waiting until the middle of March. Talk about closing the gate after the cows got out. Instead, what we heard from leadership was that this was a Democratic party hoax.  I don't care if the President is Republican, Democrat, Independent, or a Martian, that was poor display of leadership. This type of event is a REAL type of threat to our great country.

Sorry that I made this post a rant, but when I hear a story like this, it hits home pretty hard. Once again my condolences to you Jack.

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^

Every loss of life is heartbreaking. My condolences also.

To further clarify here is the CDC's  January 31 release he is referring too:,,

Secretary Azar Declares Public Health Emergency for United States for 2019 Novel Coronavirus
Health and Human Services Secretary Alex M. Azar II declared a public health emergency for the entire United States to aid the nation’s healthcare community in responding to 2019 novel coronavirus.

“While this virus poses a serious public health threat, the risk to the American public remains low at this time, and we are working to keep this risk low,” Secretary Azar said. “We are committed to protecting the health and safety of all Americans, and this public health emergency declaration is the latest in the series of steps the Trump Administration has taken to protect our country.”

The emergency declaration gives state, tribal, and local health departments more flexibility to request that HHS authorize them to temporarily reassign state, local, and tribal personnel to respond to 2019-nCoV if their salaries normally are funded in whole or in part by Public Health Service Act programs. These personnel could assist with public health information campaigns and other response activities.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is working closely with state health departments on disease surveillance, contact tracing, and providing interim guidance for clinicians on identifying and treating coronavirus infections. HHS is working with the Department of State to assist in bringing home Americans who had been living in affected areas of mainland China. HHS divisions also are collaborating with industry to identify and move forward with development of potential diagnostics, vaccines, and therapeutics to detect, prevent, and treat 2019-nCoV infections.

In declaring the public health emergency, Secretary Azar acted within his authority under the Public Health Service Act. This declaration is retroactive to January 27, 2020.

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9 hours ago, Jackstraw said:

The executive office of the country has claimed absolute power over everyone (was only a matter of time) so all arguments are moot now.  Let's all just fall in line and follow our supreme leader :facepalm:

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” United States Constitution, Amendment X

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2 hours ago, IWXwx said:

CDC declared a public health emergency on January 30th, THAT's when action should have been taken, not waiting until the middle of March.

As late as Feb 29th,  one of the primary experts (Fauci) advising the President said in an interview on the Today Show, "No need to change lifestyle yet".

If that's what was being advised at the time, what do you think the president should have done differently, instead of listening to the experts?

Plenty of blame to go around.  Hopefully as a country we can learn from this and make better decisions next time.

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18 minutes ago, weatherbo said:

As late as Feb 29th,  one of the primary experts (Fauci) advising the President said in an interview on the Today Show, "No need to change lifestyle yet".

If that's what was being advised at the time, what do you think the president should have done differently, instead of listening to the experts?

Plenty of blame to go around.  Hopefully as a country we can learn from this and make better decisions next time.

He also recommended as of March 9 that young, healthy people still travel on cruises if they have one planned.

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8 hours ago, Jackstraw said:

  I'm not a social media person.  I don't tweet, twitch, tchwat, face or anything.  This board is about as social media as I'll ever get.  Hoosier can delete this post if he needs to, I understand.

  One of my best friends I've ever had lost his life to this around noon today.  He was perfectly healthy, no underlying conditions.  He was 10 years my junior at 48, had worked his way up from being a dishwasher at my restaurant back in the 90's to becoming a partner in that business with my brother and I to getting a PHD in 2017 in social psychology.  He was my roommate for 5 years, my friend, my adventure buddy from kayaking to rock climbing to just about anything that made you feel alive to anything stupid enough to get you killed.  He kept my "Old Man" arrogance in check while pushing me to not be "The Old Man".  Most of all we listened to each other, really listened, something that's hard to come by nowadays. He married a wonderful woman he met who was waitressing at our restaurant and they have 4 awesome kids.  She went from a waitress to being a pediatric RN. 

  He started feeling bad the last week of March.  He and I were talking on the phone and I asked him if he was ok because I could just tell something wasn't right..   He told me he was fine just felt like a little cold.  With what was going on and being someone like me who very seldom gets sick with colds flu or anything I asked him if he was concerned.  That's when he told me he had already self contained himself in their garage by then so I knew he knew something was up. 3 days later his wife called us and was really getting concerned.  She said he had a 102 temp that wasn't moving.  He's a stubborn prick like I am so she asked me to talk to him.  I talked to him on the phone over the next couple days and it was very noticeable he was getting worse.  By the 3rd of April he conceded something was really wrong, really wrong.  She got him to the hospital the following day, they tested him but since they had a good quarantine set up at home, plus they live on 5 acres in the country, and he wasn't in the high risk category sent him home.  When he conceded he was sick it just got worse.  I talked to him 2 maybe 3 times a day, either skype or just the phone.  Thats when he started getting scared.  I mean you could hear the subtle fear in his voice, the struggle to breathe, you could see it in his face.  He was trying to stay cool for his wife and kids but she knew.  I was scared for him.  We would talk and do the he's young and healthy enough drill that he'd make it through.  They got the result of the test back the 6th and it was positive.  She tried to get him admitted to the hospital last Tuesday but even though he was positive he didn't adhere to the criteria needed in FL to be admitted.  He finally got so bad last Thursday night she had to call an ambulance and they admitted him.  He was in ICU on Friday, that's the last time I talked to him.  They intubated him Friday evening and  he succombed Monday.

  The only reason I'm posting this is because this ain't the damn flu.  This was a perfectly healthy active 48 year old man  It took it 3 weeks to take him but it took him.  Not a weak man, not someone who gives up, not someone who cowers in front of adversity.  A true survivor that overcame hurtles in his life that most of us would or will never have to face.  

  I'm still numb to this.  I won't be able to pay my respects at a funeral.  I couldn't and can't jump on a plane and embrace his wife, his 3 kids in college, his one still at home.  He and I were both cynical about this back in January, lets just get it and we'll be immune come fall when it comes back like the flu.  This ain't the damn flu and it will kill anyone who doesn't take it seriously and doesn't treat it with respect and with the responsibility we all have to our family friends and neighbors.  This story is one of millions worldwide.  Please be safe everyone and truly think about others before you think about your wallet.

 

My sincere condolences to you

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12 hours ago, RobertSul said:

You understand it’s serious, but you’d still rather be able to have more avenues to spread this extremely contagious disease?

A golf game and other non-essentials are more important to you than the pain and suffering this disease has caused and will continue to cause? 

If that's the line of thinking our country has I'd rather the coronavirus wipe us all out.  Just because there is a catastrophic pandemic does not mean you can tell me I cannot paint my bedroom while having to sit inside.  Or plant flowers and lay mulch around the house. You can take something seriously without giving up everything, yet Michigan has done just that.

Meanwhile Ohio has spearheaded the response in this country, has much more reasonable rules, and a much lower case count.  Governor Whitmer will likely, and deservedly lose re-election based on what she has done.  It does not shock me to see a Democrat go overboard on the rights of individuals, but it does sadden me.  What do you expect out of the same place where droves of people willingly give money to unions though.

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