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2018/19 Winter Banter and General Discussion - We winter of YORE

Baroclinic Zone

By Baroclinic Zone,
in New England

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powderfreak

powderfreak

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Yeah...it becomes much harder when you have that many miles and a smaller population.  I just get so angry at the condition of the roads.  This didn't happen when I was growing up, not in other parts of the state that I lived in.  Part of the issue I think is lack of commercial development/industry. Pretty much all of the tax base is from property taxes by homeowners. Mass limits tax increases to 2.5% per year max.  Costs are going up more than that and everything is being squeezed.

I know a realtor who just started showing a property on my street that is the last house before the road turns to shit.  She told me she was so thankful that the house was where it was or she figured it would be a 5-10% hit if it was on the bad part (which is basically the rest of our road)

That's nuts 

Yeah when your property value gets impacted by the condition of the town road you live on...that would be infuriating because you know your tax assessment isn't taking that into consideration like a prospective buyer would.

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tamarack

tamarack

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

Just returned from the meeting.  The town had proposed a 5 year road plan.  Ours was not on it.  We pled our case.  We might get taken care of but I might take up launching an override campaign.

Many years ago when we lived in a back settlement of Fort Kent, about 1,000 feet of our road became an early spring mud-run of sufficient robustness as to catch and hold heavy cars with 15" rims and even some 2WD pickups.  Our small Cavalier, still the best for traction of any 2WD vehicle I've driven, showed its mettle by crawling, barely, past the stuck iron for several days.  At that year's town meeting I noted that first responders might not be able to climb thru that gunk, and a week later the town robbed the sand/salt pile for the patch.  I figured they'd created the biggest salt lick in the Northeast, but the deer never showed any interest.  (Town meeting there was always a bit frustrating, as the best jokes were told in French, with words beyond my modest command of the language.)
 

You’d think God would treat his home a little better.

He's lent it to us as His stewards.  It's up to us to do a good job.  ;)

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HIPPYVALLEY

HIPPYVALLEY

Posted
Posted

Chimney guy came today, we were overdue, never got our fall cleaning so it had been almost 2 seasons of burning.  He was blown away by how little creosote build up we had!  He told me we were in the minority of clients they have in terms of proper burning practices. I told him I even burn about 20% pine.   Looks like I at least learned something after 9 years of wood fires.   It's a late 70's Vermont Castings that had very few hours on it when I bought it used.  Last year after much research I realized that it's a stove that likes to run fairly wide open and not get dampered too much under 450F.  Our house is small so it get's a little warm but I have no issue with shorts and a t-shirt in January.     :sizzle:    

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tamarack

tamarack

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Chimney guy came today, we were overdue, never got our fall cleaning so it had been almost 2 seasons of burning.  He was blown away by how little creosote build up we had!  He told me we were in the minority of clients they have in terms of proper burning practices. I told him I even burn about 20% pine.   Looks like I at least learned something after 9 years of wood fires.   It's a late 70's Vermont Castings that had very few hours on it when I bought it used.  Last year after much research I realized that it's a stove that likes to run fairly wide open and not get dampered too much under 450F.  Our house is small so it get's a little warm but I have no issue with shorts and a t-shirt in January.     :sizzle:    

Run them right and there should be no issues.  We've had wood as a major part of domestic heat since 1977, in 4 different homes with 6 different stoves, and no real problems.  The closest came on our coldest morning (-47) in Ft. Kent.  I was away overnight, on the border near St.-Pamphile, PQ, where it was a mild -40.  My wife loaded the small Jotul upstairs then did the old, leaky $20 parlor stove in the basement.  The side door hinges were broken so we left it latched, and when she had stuffed the stove fully (it held about 4 times as much as the little 602), she noted that side door on its hinge side was open perhaps 3/4" top to bottom.  With a 35' chimney and a 110°+ difference between inside and outside plus that huge opening, the draw was fierce.  She wisely didn't try closing that door - it probably would've fallen off completely.  So she half filled two 5-gal buckets, set them 6 feet from the stove and stood behind them for the 20 minutes it took for the wood (we saved crummy stuff like balsam poplar for that stove) to burn down to coals.  She said the 3' run of pipe turned orange, almost yellow.

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HIPPYVALLEY

HIPPYVALLEY

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, tamarack said:

Run them right and there should be no issues.  We've had wood as a major part of domestic heat since 1977, in 4 different homes with 6 different stoves, and no real problems.  The closest came on our coldest morning (-47) in Ft. Kent.  I was away overnight, on the border near St.-Pamphile, PQ, where it was a mild -40.  My wife loaded the small Jotul upstairs then did the old, leaky $20 parlor stove in the basement.  The side door hinges were broken so we left it latched, and when she had stuffed the stove fully (it held about 4 times as much as the little 602), she noted that side door on its hinge side was open perhaps 3/4" top to bottom.  With a 35' chimney and a 110°+ difference between inside and outside plus that huge opening, the draw was fierce.  She wisely didn't try closing that door - it probably would've fallen off completely.  So she half filled two 5-gal buckets, set them 6 feet from the stove and stood behind them for the 20 minutes it took for the wood (we saved crummy stuff like balsam poplar for that stove) to burn down to coals.  She said the 3' run of pipe turned orange, almost yellow.

Heh' yeah, orange pipe in a pitch black room is scary.  Luckily have not done that here but have certainly seen it.  I had stainless liners put in the chimney years ago, the expense was worth the piece of mind.  We have a Jotul 602 in the basement in case of power out or if I'm working down there for extended periods.  The old Vermont Castings are indestructible, made from melted down Volvo engine blocks is the rumor.  Many people are intimidated running stoves hot but depending on the make it's worse to run them too cool.  The only issue with wood heat is being cold when you go to people's houses who don't burn.  ;)

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DavisStraight

DavisStraight

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Chimney guy came today, we were overdue, never got our fall cleaning so it had been almost 2 seasons of burning.  He was blown away by how little creosote build up we had!  He told me we were in the minority of clients they have in terms of proper burning practices. I told him I even burn about 20% pine.   Looks like I at least learned something after 9 years of wood fires.   It's a late 70's Vermont Castings that had very few hours on it when I bought it used.  Last year after much research I realized that it's a stove that likes to run fairly wide open and not get dampered too much under 450F.  Our house is small so it get's a little warm but I have no issue with shorts and a t-shirt in January.     :sizzle:    

I find if I season my wood a couple years I get very little creosote, I have one of the new Woodstock hybrid stoves.

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BrianW

BrianW

Posted
Posted

The old stoves are nice but the new stuff destroys the older stuff on efficiency and emissions. If your stove doesn't have air tubes or a catalytic converter your using way more wood and sending 5-6 times the amount of smoke/particulate into the airm 

My newer insert literally has zero smoke coming out of it once its up to temp. The tubes on top inject air and burns up the smoke like a blowtorch extracting even heat from the smoke.

Some studies have shown a reduction almost 50% in wood consumption as well.

Today’s wood stove models feature improved safety and efficiency--they produce almost no smoke, minimal ash, and require less firewood. While older uncertified stoves release 15 to 30 grams of smoke per hour, new EPA-certified stoves produce no more than 4.5 grams per hour. 

https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/choosing-right-wood-burning-stove

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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted

Drove up 84 yesterday, and I was shocked how the temp dropped like 10 degrees as the highway rose up towards Tolland. Truly a magical place.

But I did get to pit stop at Tree House. Got my hands on Very Green for the first time, so I'm excited about that. Also grabbed at least a can of everything else they had on offer. Quite a few I haven't had before (SSSappp, Super Typhoon, In Perpetuity, Curiosity 61). 

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tamarack

tamarack

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, HIPPYVALLEY said:

Heh' yeah, orange pipe in a pitch black room is scary.  Luckily have not done that here but have certainly seen it.  I had stainless liners put in the chimney years ago, the expense was worth the piece of mind.  We have a Jotul 602 in the basement in case of power out or if I'm working down there for extended periods.  The old Vermont Castings are indestructible, made from melted down Volvo engine blocks is the rumor.  Many people are intimidated running stoves hot but depending on the make it's worse to run them too cool.  The only issue with wood heat is being cold when you go to people's houses who don't burn.  ;)

I recall a brief note in a newspaper, shortly after our 1973 move from NNJ to BGR, that stated how a significant (as in billions) part of the world's people used wood as a major resource for heat and cooking, and I thought, "How quaint."  Four years later our thinking had changed, as we bought the Jotul 602 and installed it in our first house the day before moving in.

After minima of zero and 1 the past two days, we were a degree or three below this morning, almost certainly the last subzero morning until Nov/Dec.

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Damage In Tolland

Damage In Tolland

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Drove up 84 yesterday, and I was shocked how the temp dropped like 10 degrees as the highway rose up towards Tolland. Truly a magical place.

But I did get to pit stop at Tree House. Got my hands on Very Green for the first time, so I'm excited about that. Also grabbed at least a can of everything else they had on offer. Quite a few I haven't had before (SSSappp, Super Typhoon, In Perpetuity, Curiosity 61). 

Yeah they’ve had a sick offering the last few weeks. VG is out of this world. Super Typhoon is great. C61 is part of the Curiosity series. They only do those batches one time. 

I know the phenomenon you mean on the hill coming into TOL on 84. I’m sure you’re joking about the 10 degrees, but it generally drops at least 6-8 degrees from Vernon and when I pull into TOL

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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

Yeah they’ve had a sick offering the last few weeks. VG is out of this world. Super Typhoon is great. C61 is part of the Curiosity series. They only do those batches one time. 

I know the phenomenon you mean on the hill coming into TOL on 84. I’m sure you’re joking about the 10 degrees, but it generally drops at least 6-8 degrees from Vernon and when I pull into TOL

Yeah, 10 degrees is insane, but under the right conditions from the far western part of Vernon to the highest point on 84 in Tolland you could see as much as a 4 degree F swing. There's like 600 ft elevation change there.

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Damage In Tolland

Damage In Tolland

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

Yeah, 10 degrees is insane, but under the right conditions from the far western part of Vernon to the highest point on 84 in Tolland you could see as much as a 4 degree F swing. There's like 600 ft elevation change there.

That area by the Electric Blue on 84 is ~600 feet. Head up another 400 feet and it’s another couple degrees cooler. Further up in Union on 84, you’re at or around 1000 feet much of the way there 

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OceanStWx

OceanStWx

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Damage In Tolland said:

That area by the Electric Blue on 84 is ~600 feet. Head up another 400 feet and it’s another couple degrees cooler. Further up in Union on 84, you’re at or around 1000 feet much of the way there 

I can certainly see why there's a jackknifed semi every other day there during the winter.

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tamarack

tamarack

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, OceanStWx said:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/247910/one-third-blame-unusual-winter-temps-climate-change.aspx?wpisrc=nl_energy202&wpmm=1

Some soft respondents in the "east"? 34% saying a colder than normal winter despite the objective fact that it has not been colder than normal.

Maybe cut some slack for Maine folks north of PWM - Farmington co-op was 0.4° BN for met winter compared to 1981-2010, and CAR was 1.1° BN.  Can't offer the same for the many places that were AN with mediocre snowfall.

On a related note:  "Normals" are going to make a significant jump starting in 2021, when the cold 1981-90 period is replaced by the considerably less cold 2011-20.  Possibly a full degree higher in most places, maybe more.

Yeah, 10 degrees is insane, but under the right conditions from the far western part of Vernon to the highest point on 84 in Tolland you could see as much as a 4 degree F swing. There's like 600 ft elevation change there.

Not just elevation.  We had an evening meeting at our church in Farmington last month, and as we left the parking lot at 515' elev, the car thermometer read 27.  As we turned on to Rt 2 at 375', temp was 20.  3.5 miles SE it was back up to 28 at 345' in Farmington Falls.  Elevation remained 345-370 from there to the blinker light at the bridge in New Sharon while temp dropped to 22 then back to 24 in town.  2 miles north at our place (395') it was 20 - we always seem to lose 1-3° as we drive the 2,000 feet from the tar road to our driveway.  It was a fairly still night after a breezy cold day, but the ups and downs were odd.

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CapturedNature

CapturedNature

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, tamarack said:

Maybe cut some slack for Maine folks north of PWM - Farmington co-op was 0.4° BN for met winter compared to 1981-2010, and CAR was 1.1° BN.  Can't offer the same for the many places that were AN with mediocre snowfall.

On a related note:  "Normals" are going to make a significant jump starting in 2021, when the cold 1981-90 period is replaced by the considerably less cold 2011-20.  Possibly a full degree higher in most places, maybe more.

Speaking of normals, do they adjust departures from normal in previous years after they adjust what "normal" is? Or is that only valid for the 10 year period until a new set of normals are released?

I started keeping records in 1985 and when I entered the data into Excel in the early 90s I was able to much more easily calculate what my normals were and after 2015 I had a set of 30 years of data.  Every year I recalculate them and it automatically adjusts the departures based on that but I don't think that's how the NCDC does it.

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