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March 13 - 15 Major Winter Storm Potential


NEG NAO

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HRRR has a much slower progression of the warmth than the 12k NAM and I am going to favor that model in this time frame.

And it actually surges the warmth north until about 11Z, then it starts to sink back south.  Makes it almost to 195.



I've found the HRRR to be terrible with rain/snow lines and at picking up mixing. I would always trust the NAM, especially within 24 hours with that, although it doesn't necessarily support what id like to see here. 12z NAM is a sleetfest for NENJ S and E


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1 minute ago, WintersGrasp said:

 


I've found the HRRR to be terrible with rain/snow lines and at picking up mixing. I would always trust the NAM, especially within 24 hours with that, although it doesn't necessarily support what id like to see here. 12z NAM is a sleetfest for NENJ S and E


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And would be a huge letdown if true. How much sleet would we be looking at? 

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1 minute ago, WintersGrasp said:

 


I've found the HRRR to be terrible with rain/snow lines and at picking up mixing. I would always trust the NAM, especially within 24 hours with that, although it doesn't necessarily support what id like to see here. 12z NAM is a sleetfest for NENJ S and E


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It used to be horrible for sure.  I can't really comment on it currently but I will concede to you guys.  4k is warm as well.

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4 minutes ago, NJwx85 said:

The HRRR is not designed to handle situations like a rain snow line. It's main use for tomorrow would be where the greatest banding will occur. And it's very unreliable beyond 6 hours.

I mean I'd give it a little more credit in terms of forecasting beyond 6 hours, but yes I agree, the model does well with banding as we've seen in prior snowstorms.

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14 minutes ago, Drz1111 said:

Now THOSE panels show southeasterlies.  That's a Sleety Gonzalez solution.  Ageostrophic NE winds under screaming SE winds.   Might even FZRN.  

 

11 minutes ago, NJwx85 said:

namconus_ref_frzn_neus_21.png

namconus_ref_frzn_neus_22.png

namconus_ref_frzn_neus_23.png

namconus_ref_frzn_neus_24.png

 

That is essentially a rain event for most of LI. 

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:yikes: 

Hopefully that was just a burp NAM run. That's why the forecast for the NYC area and Long Island is so tough. That NAM would probably be less than 6" even in the city, and what falls on the immediate shore mainly gets washed away.


With that convection down south really pumping the heights... I could see this happening.

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The 18z Nam is just another piece of guidance. While the NAM hasn't been awful leading up to the storm, it hasn't been the most reliable. You have the Euro and UK, Gem, ensembles pretty much locked in for the past 24-36 hours. Fine tuning details, jack pot locations, etc will be worked out; but no need to run for the nearest bridge or to start building an Ark. The coast and the island may taint for a while, but this has been evident in most models.

FWIW the water vapor loop is awesome.

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Just now, USCG RS said:


With that convection down south really pumping the heights... I could see this happening.

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I have to think that's overdone based on the 12z models largely ticking colder, but that run is definitely concerning. For the coast there's no denying that was a bad run. Let's see if the other 18z models go the same way-if so we may be in trouble. 

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I have to think that's overdone based on the 12z models largely ticking colder, but that run is definitely concerning. For the coast there's no denying that was a bad run. Let's see if the other 18z models go the same way-if so we may be in trouble. 

 

I personally don't buy it, just could see it. This is what I said to a friend of mine who works as a forecaster.

 

I still think this goes about 50 miles east, but I also think this storm will be down to 975-970 around our latitude if not possibly lower

I actually buy a gfs solution. And I can not believe I'm actually siding with the gfs

The fact that the gfs, normally the warmest model, is the coldest/snowiest is a huge red flag imo.

 

EDIT : Forgot this. Here's the other thing ppl are not considering as well. If this storm intensifies more quickly, it being tucked won't matter nearly as much

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4 minutes ago, brooklynwx99 said:

It's the GFS, CMC, UKMET, Euro, EPS, SREFs, German, and RGEM against the NAM. I know what camp I'm favoring. Not saying that it's wrong, but it's kind of on an island in terms of warmth.

No it really isn't. Every model has mid levels in terrible position. As we get closer models, especially the meso'sare picking up on the warmth. 

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3 minutes ago, USCG RS said:

I personally don't buy it, just could see it. This is what I said to a friend of mine who works as a forecaster.

 

I still think this goes about 50 miles east, but I also think this storm will be down to 975-970 around our latitude if not possibly lower

I actually buy a gfs solution. And I can not believe I'm actually siding with the gfs

The fact that the gfs, normally the warmest model, is the coldest/snowiest is a huge red flag imo.

 

EDIT : Forgot this. Here's the other thing ppl are not considering as well. If this storm intensifies more quickly, it being tucked won't matter nearly as much

I'm pretty sure the GFS typically has a cold bias.

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3 minutes ago, USCG RS said:

I personally don't buy it, just could see it. This is what I said to a friend of mine who works as a forecaster.

 

I still think this goes about 50 miles east, but I also think this storm will be down to 975-970 around our latitude if not possibly lower

I actually buy a gfs solution. And I can not believe I'm actually siding with the gfs

The fact that the gfs, normally the warmest model, is the coldest/snowiest is a huge red flag imo.

 

EDIT : Forgot this. Here's the other thing ppl are not considering as well. If this storm intensifies more quickly, it being tucked won't matter nearly as much

I think more likely than a 50/75 mile east track is that the warmth in the mid layers is overcome by the heavier precip rates and many areas near NYC just go SNPL or PLSN for periods of time.  I do know they nobody is changing to rain outside of eastern LI.  The surface wind component just doesn't support it on any model even if the model wants to show rain in some areas 

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