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Winter medium range model pbp I


GaWx

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Normally this track would be terrible for me (in Greenville NC), but it just so happens I'll be skiing up at boone this weekend (getting in Thursday night) and staying at 5,000 ft so feeling pretty good with the trend of the NAVGEM, CMC, and EURO. Although precip still a question mark in WNC and I'm still a bit weary on Temps even out there. 

 

Hopefully stronger high pressure takes hold to the north than modeled to bring upstate SC and central NC to the party. 

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I don't know that word, but I'm assuming it's good because that's a lot of QPF for North Carolina per Tropical Tidbits. Track look little too far east for us in WNC, but it's something. Correct me if I'm wrong?

 

 

jma has the surface low hundreds of miles off the coast ofor se nc.

 

Looking at the crude maps, it throws precip all the way back into TN.  Much more expansive precip shield than the other modeling.  Maybe it's just the JMA being crazy, though.

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N. GA should see flakes with this system. We do well in setups like this.

 

Marietta,

 Do you mean N GA should see backside snow flurries/showers? What do you mean by N GA? That's believable (especially at a place like Marietta) though that would almost definitely be nothing like the potential you'd get from a solid frontend hit. Or are you talking about the frontend? Are you talking just the mountains?

 

 When I say I'm out, I mean for the frontend. 850's are clearly too warm now. This winding up isn't doing ATL area any good for the main show....mo shocker there. However, there could be some backend stuff with little chance of any meaningful accumulation imo since it typically dries out so fast with NW flow.

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N. GA should see flakes with this system. We do well in setups like this.

 

At 850mb, temps are OK on the Euro (a hell of a lot better than the GFS). I don't know about 2m temps though. Either way, If there still remains a way for us to have a chance, I would rather hang my hat onto the Euro over the GFS right about now.

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Marietta,

 Do you mean N GA should see backside snow flurries/showers? What do you mean by N GA? That's believable (especially at a place like Marietta) though that would almost definitely be nothing like the potential you'd get from a solid frontend hit. Or are you talking about the frontend? Are you talking just the mountains?

 

 When I say I'm out, I mean for the frontend. 850's are clearly too warm now. This winding up isn't doing ATL area any good for the main show....mo shocker there. However, there could be some backend stuff with little chance of any meaningful accumulation imo since it typically dries out so fast with NW flow.

 

I'm not giving up on any options right now but back end snow showers and flurries for mby looks pretty likely.  I'll take a positive trend to get me a snowstorm on the front end.

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At 850mb, temps are OK on the Euro (a hell of a lot better than the GFS). I don't know about 2m temps though. Either way, If there still remains a way for us to have a chance, I would rather hang my hat onto the Euro over the GFS right about now.

 

Yep, I'm ok with where we are right now for North Atlanta. 

 

Also Monday's system looks snowy here as well.

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At 850mb, temps are OK on the Euro (a hell of a lot better than the GFS). I don't know about 2m temps though. Either way, If there still remains a way for us to have a chance, I would rather hang my hat onto the Euro over the GFS right about now.

 

 

toxic,

 Unfortunately, the 850's have warmed considerably over the last 24 hours of runs and are verbatim too warm for snow in Atlanta in advance of the 1/23 system on the Euro other than perhaps the northern burbs. Furthermore, they obviously could even warm further on future runs. The trend is not your friend right now for the main part (front-end). Either the models are on crack with regard to their sudden significantly warmer 850 predictions over the last 12 or so hours or this one is dead for the front-end in ATL, which I now believe.

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Substantial expected shift in the 12z EPS Mean.

 

Yeah, that was indeed a significant shift nw and stronger with the coastal.  Euro Ens agrees with Op - peak interest would be NC mtn areas given sketchy temps.  It's funny that we've been following this system for 5 days or so, yet there is still 4-5 days to go

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Substantial expected shift in the 12z EPS Mean. The mean supports a coastal for sure now. The mean of east of the op, unsurprisingly.

The mean has 0.5"+ QPF all the way back to I-85 in NC.

Remember that GEFS ensemble member porn I just posted in the Banter? Yeah....Euro has a few members that are insane for NC per low track...

lots of sub 990s in the right place, 985, 984, 983, 986...etc. Wow. Tight cluster too...this one is going coastal.

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 For 1/23: The 12Z EPS mean is significantly wetter than the 0Z EPS but is also consistent with the warmer 850's trend of model consensus since yesterday and is suggesting that 850's ahead of and during the heart of the storm would be warmer than 0C for at least much of N GA (including ATL-AHN) for any front-end/major stuff. The mean 850 0C line is now almost all of the way up to the GA/TN/NC border!

 

 In other words, the trend for N GA is toward a sig. cold rainstorm on 1/23. How exciting! ;)

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Euro does have some dynamic cooling wet snow for western/northern NC, but I agree with GAwx- any chance in ATL-AHN is done. Another cold rain, blech. I prefer the nice 60F weather we are getting right now, in fact I am just about to take a nice long walk.

Agreed...although I never believed we would get anything from it to start with. Not once that I'm aware of have the models been cold or dry enough in the low levels. So i'm really not sure why there has been so much focus on it. Even with this wetter solution, I'm having a hard time believing the mid levels and/or the boundary layer cools off enough outside the mountains anywhere.  The areas that have the best shot of it even happening in nc  only recieve around 0.50 liquid altogether with a significant portion of that falling when it's clearly not going to be cold enough. While totals are much less over eastern tn with 0.25 or less there. So in the end, even if it cools off enough, there won't be much precip to fall as snow. Clearly the only shot of anyone seeing anything worthwhile from this system is in the higher elevations of north ga/nc and maybe tn. But even there it shows only 0.25 to less than a half inch.

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FWIW, the 12z NAVGEM is now a cutoff low over TN with the sfc low bombing off along the SE coast line.  Big mtn snow with that setup.  The cutoff scenario does allow confluence to build in and set up a 1030mb high at 96 hrs

 

 

 

Euro has similar look, just doesn't cutoff yet...but has the HP...

post-2311-0-12170500-1421702219_thumb.pn

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Agreed...although I never believed we would get anything from it to start with. Not once that I'm aware of have the models been cold or dry enough in the low levels. So i'm really not sure why there has been so much focus on it. Even with this wetter solution, I'm having a hard time believing the boundary layer cools off enough outside the mountains even in north carolina. The areas that have the best shot of it even happening only recieve around 0.50 liquid altogether with a significant portion of that falling when it's clearly not going to be cold enough. So in the end, even if it cools off enough, there won't be much precip to fall as snow. Clearly the only shot of anyone seeing anything worthwhile from this system is in the higher elevations of north ga/nc and maybe tn. But even there it shows only 0.25 to less than a half inch.

 

Lookout,

 The Euro has had a warm bias of several degrees at 2m in steady precip. situations like this for years. We've discussed this including last Feb. The new GFS also appears to have this same bias. Also, the 850's were below 0C down to/near MCN on many runs. They were cooling substantially with the precip. due to very dry air at 850 mb. So, when these things were taken into account, I maintain that the consensus was, indeed, cold enough. With heavy enough precip. and 850's several degreees below 0C, why wouldn't that be enough to get SN to the ground? It wouldn't even need to go anywhere close to isothermal to do that if 850's are near, say, 27-28. 34 at the sfc could allow for sticking on grass if heavy/steady enough. However, with 0C 850's now so much further north, it is a totally different story imo.

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LOL, Pack, you can always count on the control run to bring the goods.

Looks like the EPS Mean has ticked up to over 2" now with about half of the members showing hits (I'm guessing some are still OTS and there are probably some really amped members that are merely rain). Of the hits, I'd say a third are major like the control, a third are moderate, and a third are light.

RDU and CLT's means are around 1.2".

Not a bad look at this point, though there's still a long way to go. Wouldn't be surprised if we rain while DC HECSs.

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