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Winter 2014-2015 Pattern Discussion Thread III


BIG FROSTY

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The 00z GFS brings in some ZR around here by 6z to 12z SUN then magically blasts the area back into the mid to upper 30's...the WEDGE looks to be in great position this run as well.  by 18z its rain here *if you believe the temp profile* ICING for ALL of SC  (CAE to GSP) then its moving into NC as icing 

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The 00z GFS brings in some ZR around here by 6z to 12z SUN then magically blasts the area back into the mid to upper 30's...the WEDGE looks to be in great position this run as well. by 18z its rain here *if you believe the temp profile* ICING for ALL of SC (CAE to GSP) then its moving into NC as icing

Almost had ice to Savannah, for a frame!!
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I would have to disagree.  The "snow hole" tends to occur in the lee of the Apps due to the downsloping effect of the Appalachian Mountains.  That happens most frequently in clipper-type systems that approach from the NW.  This system will be coming from the SW, not the NW.  The reason that precipitation is not very evident in the lee of the Apps this time is that the surface low just happens to be pretty near the coast and is rather weak.  This system is still so far out in the future that there is plenty of time for the low to strengthen and/or take a slightly more northward track, in which case the upstate and western piedmont of NC would get all the ice/sleet they could want.  In conclusion, it's way too early to worry about who is going to get what type of precipitation and how much.  It's all about the general storm track and potential at this point in the game.

99 percent correct! Excellent points. Only thing I would say different is that this area tends get missed a lot on the southern storms that go a little to far south and either go out to sea, or ride off the coast. Examples would be the Carolina crusher of 2000, Dec 89 storm, and Feb 73. All tracked too far south at our longitude and turned a little northward too far to our east. So it usually either gets downsloped or missed in suppression to the SE. In addition, the weaker CADs don't make it here, and usually only make it to around rock hill / Gaffney/ Union. The ones that work for us are the middle ground ones like Jan 88, Jan 96, and Jan 2011.

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GFS and para are very different in terms of progression and strength of high pressures which is key for maintaining wintry precipitation for the southeast in most situations. Similarly, the models seem to have issues with the time, intensity and number of impulses off the southeast coast.

Also, while I'm not up to date on the para which may not do as well with large scale features, I imagine the higher resolution would better represent cold air damning. Regardless we are seeing signs of a winter storm or storms however things will likely materialize significantly differntly then what we are seeing now given the complexity of these type of events.

Fingers crossed that the potential impending system trends in an even more wintry direction!

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The Euro's like, "hey, let's do March 6-7, 2014 again, K?"  Bad ice storm for the same hard-hit areas.  The coastal bombs in the Atlantic.

 

EDIT: Well, it's not nearly as bad, but still warning-criteria.  Verbatim, it looks like rain-to-ice.  If I corrected the temperatures down a couple degrees Fahrenheit and assumed the Euro is too warm as I hear it is in CAD situations, it would be a bad, bad one.  Seems a bit weenieish, though, so I won't.  Verbatim, it's probably 1/2" of ZR and/or IP for GSO, though!  Lowest temp is 30!

 

The icing is confined to the NW Piedmont.  RDU and CLT are all rain as is the rest of the SE.  Verbatim, of course.  There's a 1045 mb HP that slides down from Ontario into New York during the storm.

 

925 mb temperatures start out really warm, but fall below freezing for I-85 N/W after hr 180, so maybe there could be some sleet in there towards the end.

 

Atlanta is in the mid-40s, so it's not close there.  NW SC is in the mid to upper 30s.  RDU and CLT are kind of borderline, but a little too warm.

 

Given that 12z had no precip at all here for the most part, I think it's a positive step if you want ice...

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GFS and para are very different in terms of progression and strength of high pressures which is key for maintaining wintry precipitation for the southeast in most situations. Similarly, the models seem to have issues with the time, intensity and number of impulses off the southeast coast.

Also, while I'm not up to date on the para which may not do as well with large scale features, I imagine the higher resolution would better represent cold air damning. Regardless we are seeing signs of a winter storm or storms however things will likely materialize significantly differntly then what we are seeing now given the complexity of these type of events.

Fingers crossed that the potential impending system trends in an even more wintry direction!

 

The increased resolution hurts the parallel GFS, according to NOAA, it has a stronger warm bias in the boundary layer than the regular GFS (which is traded for less of a warm bias in the mid-levels, a feature that should quell the formation of "ghost" canes often observed in the long range on the regular GFS). This implies the parallel GFS is actually even worse w/ CAD

GFS-Mean-Temperature-Bias-Parallel-vs-Op

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Well the 6z GFS was a step back for precip amounts. Maybe gets close to .25 liquid for RDU. It still shows many in SC and NC receiving freezing rain. Even GA starts off as freezing rain. Even has NC switching to light snow at the end of this two day (light)event.

 

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/Image.php?image=data%2Fgfs%2F06%2Fgfs_namer_168_dom_precip_type.gif&model=gfs&area=namer&storm=&cycle=06&param=dom_precip_type&fhr=168&group=Model+Guidance&imageSize=M&ps=model&use_mins=no&preselected_formatted_cycle_date=20150106+06+UTC&scrollx=0&scrolly=0

 

As stated before we can expect the models to wobble on the setup and amounts this far out.

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I thought Euro took a big step to the GFS solution....it's just a little delayed. Also GFS PARA looked fantastic. Much colder aloft so it's closer to snow for a lot in NC...then it has an ULL drop in which would bring more snow to NC. I really think after Monday is our first real shot at some snow. Euro had a similar look at the end of it's run as well. 

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