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Winter 13-14' Med/Long Range Discussion


Chicago Storm

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For me any snow before the new year is a Christmas bonus. All this talk about +SN and cold has me worried about the Lucy effect..... Perhaps this is the thanksgiving Charlie finally gets to kick the football !!

 

One must admit the elements are falling in place for a front sider......

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I keep hearing rumblings about 3"-5" of snow sometime next week... I haven't seen anything on the weather regarding any snow... I have read the last couple of posts here, so I will just wait and see. 

 

TBH, I don't expect much of anything, beyond some rain... in fact, for Tues/Wed next week, Caplan and company are showing rain.

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I keep hearing rumblings about 3"-5" of snow sometime next week... I haven't seen anything on the weather regarding any snow... I have read the last couple of posts here, so I will just wait and see.

TBH, I don't expect much of anything, beyond some rain... in fact, for Tues/Wed next week, Caplan and company are showing rain.

Skilling is thinking some snow. I have seen a few decent snowfalls in mid November before.

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The 18z GFS ensembles definitely trended more amplified with the shortwave with more of the individual members painting an accumulating snow across some portion of our subforum. Then the 0z GFS happened. Maybe this will need to be looked into if the trends of colder/more amplified continue. Can't help but think this will trend north/weaker with the lack of Atlantic side blocking. The modest ridge over the Rockies/Canadian Plains shown on the GFS that possibly would allow this to possibly happen is also not a certainty. Oh well.

post-525-0-97170800-1383800615_thumb.gif

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DVN has a small writeup of the above mentioned '97 event  http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dvn/?n=ev19971115snow

 

Sweet sat image. Most of Lake County here got hit with the LES band in the morning. Highest total was around a foot, 10" fell here. I remember the temp never dipped below about 31.5° during the entire event. 

Areas really close to the lake got under 1" generally because of the lake temperatures being in the upper 40s.

---

For the air mass next week... GFS has a substantial area of -10°C and below 850mb temps.

 

GFS_3_2013110700_F138_TMPC_850_MB.png

 

GGEM

 

P6_GZ_D5_PN_132_0000.gif

 

P6_GZ_D5_PN_144_0000.gif

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Man, I thought we get ridiculous with our threads every now and then... I went to mid Atlantic and saw the thread they have for this "event", and I consider us lucky. Good job with the policing, makes for a clean informative thread.

Regardless of snow or not, certainly looks like our coldest air of the season is a lock.

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Man, I thought we get ridiculous with our threads every now and then... I went to mid Atlantic and saw the thread they have for this "event", and I consider us lucky. Good job with the policing, makes for a clean informative thread.

Regardless of snow or not, certainly looks like our coldest air of the season is a lock.

 

 

to be fair, the potential out east is for a much more interesting event but yeah, weenie central.

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Local news stations mentioning accumulating snow and the "jump to winter" next week. 

 

Another great Izzi discussion for next week.

 

 

AMAZINGLY...THE GFS...ITS ENSEMBLES...THE ECMWF...AND EVEN THE GEM
ARE IN REMARKABLY GOOD AGREEMENT ON THE LARGE SCALE UPPER AIR
EVOLUTION...LENDING SOME DEGREE OF CONFIDENCE TO MAINLY THE MUCH
BELOW AVERAGE TEMPERATURE FORECAST TUESDAY INTO WEDNESDAY. CURRENT
FORECAST DROP 850MB TEMPS INTO THE -10C TO -12C RANGE...WHICH
LOOKING UPPER AIR CLIMO FOR THE FIRST HALF OF NOVEMBER DATING BACK
TO 1979...THIS WOULD BE AMONG THE TOP 3-5% OF COLDEST AIR MASSES TO
AFFECT THE AREA. MEDIUM RANGE MODELS ARE OFTEN OVERLY AGGRESSIVE
WITH ARCTIC AIR IN THE MEDIUM RANGE PERIOD THIS TIME OF YEAR AND
GIVEN THE ANTICIPATED VERY COMPLEX EVOLUTION OF THE PATTERN AM
RELUCTANT TO GO AS COLD AS THESE TEMPS WOULD SUPPORT (HIGHS NEAR OR
JUST BELOW FREEZING)...BUT DID LOWER HIGHS BELOW OBJECTIVE GUIDANCE
FOR TUES/WED HIGHS. OPTED TO KEEP LOWS MORE CONSERVATIVE AND CLOSER
TO GUIDANCE WITH THE ALMOST CERTAIN OVERCAST CONDITIONS IF CURRENT
MODEL SOLUTIONS HAVE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST WHIFF OF HOW THINGS PAN OUT.

SUCH A MASSIVE DUMP OF COLD AIR WITH A CLOSING OFF UPPER LOW IN THE
REGION SHOULD LOCK IN AN EXPANSIVE CLOUD DECK. GIVEN THE COLD TEMPS
IN THE CLOUD LAYER IT WOULD BE VERY EASY FOR THE CLOUDS TO LEAK AT
LEAST OCNL FLURRIES IN THE CYCLONIC LOW LEVEL FLOW. MORE SUBSTANTIAL
CHANCES FOR SOME MEASURABLE SNOW COULD RESULT FROM ANY SHORTWAVE
ENERGY TRANSLATING THROUGH THIS AMPLIFYING TROUGH AND ALSO VIA LAKE
EFFECT. TRYING TO FORECAST ANY LOW AMPLITUDE WAVES RIPPLING THROUGH
THIS COMPLEX FLOW WOULD BE FUTILE AT THIS POINT...SO NO SENSE IN
EVEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE MODELS ARE SHOWING AS IT WILL ALMOST
UNDOUBTEDLY CHANGE MULTIPLE TIMES OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS.
ECMWF/GFS BOTH FORECAST A VERY FAVORABLE LAKE EFFECT SET UP WHERE
EVER DOWNWIND OF LAKE MICHIGAN ENDS UP BEING (TOO SOON TO
CONFIDENTLY PREDICT WIND FIELDS THIS FAR OUT)...BUT CURRENT FORECAST
DELTA-T VALUES NEAR 20C WITH HIGH EL HEIGHTS IN VICINITY OF THE
UPPER LOW COULD ITS POSSIBLE THERE COULD BE AN IMPRESSIVE LAKE
EFFECT SOMEWHERE. HAVE KEPT POPS MODEST...EXCEPT NEAR THE LAKE...AND
HAVE SWITCHED P-TYPE IN THE FORECAST TO ALL SNOW GIVEN THE
FORECASTED TEMPS.

FOR THOSE OF US NOT READY FOR WINTER...BETTER MAKE PLANS TO ENJOY
SATURDAY!

IZZI

 

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Sweet sat image. Most of Lake County here got hit with the LES band in the morning. Highest total was around a foot, 10" fell here. I remember the temp never dipped below about 31.5° during the entire event.

Areas really close to the lake got under 1" generally because of the lake temperatures being in the upper 40s.

Right now this airmass looks colder than the one in November 1997, which may mean a better chance of snow right to the shore.

12z GFS has at least 18-24 hours of favorable conditions for lake effect. It's obviously way too early to get into details but if this holds then there's a very good chance that someone at the southern or western side of the lake will be shoveling next week.

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