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December 19th-20 Storm Thread II


Baroclinic Zone

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Figured this is probably worth a read..

...MID ATLANTIC/NORTHEAST...

THE ECMWF/CANADIAN/GFS/NAM MODELS HAVE TRENDED WEST THIS CYCLE

WITH THE CYCLONE TRACK OF THE SYSTEM FORECAST TO DEVELOP ALONG THE

SOUTHEAST COAST AND MOVE OVER THE COASTAL

WATERS OF THE MID ATLANTIC/NEW ENGLAND. THE SYSTEM REMAINS A

TOUGH CHALLENGE DUE TO RUN TO RUN FLUCTUATIONS IN TRACK/INTENSITY

AS THERE ARE CONFLICTING SIGNALS CONCERNING SNOWSTORM POTENTIAL

RESULTING FROM TIMING AND INTENSITY CHANGES. THE STRONGER MODEL

SOLUTIONS AND THOSE WITH A FURTHER WEST TRACK LIKE THE 12Z ECMWF

RESULT IN GREATER SNOWFALL POTENTIAL. GIVEN THE ECMWF 300 MB JET

STRUCTURE AND 700 MB WAVE COMING ON TO THE WEST COAST IN CA LOOK

SIMILAR TO THE PRIOR 00Z RUN...I DO NOT SEE PACIFIC SAMPLING OF

THE DATA AS THE CAUSE OF THE RUN TO RUN CHANGE. IT APPEARS TO BE

MORE TIED TO TYPICAL PHASING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CONFLUENT FLOW OF

TWO JET STREAMS IN THE EAST...AND SUBJECT TO FURTHER CHANGE. LOW

RISKS OF FOUR AND EIGHT INCHES ARE SHOWN IN PARTS OF THE MID

ATLANTIC TO LONG ISLAND/SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND UNTIL THE MODELS CAN

SETTLE ON THE EVOLUTION OF THE CYCLONE AND RESULTANT ADJUSTMENTS

IN WHERE THE SNOW/RAIN TRANSITION ZONE SETS UP AND HOW FAR WEST

HEAVY PRECIPITATION EXTENDS. CONFIDENCE REMAINS LOW...AS IS

TYPICAL FOR A POTENTIAL EAST COAST SNOW EVENT. CONSEQUENTLY...A

BLEND OF MODEL/SREF MEAN SOLUTIONS WAS USED FOR THE FORECAST.

THE PROBABILITY OF SIGNIFICANT ICING IS LESS THAN 10 PERCENT.

PETERSEN

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It must have some difficulty with east coast snowstorms or something...idk. It's skill scores are 2nd...and I found it better than the GFS in Bermuda also.

I've seen it score some major coups in snowstorms here, but obviously it has some really exotic runs that are wrong. I believe it was actually the best model in the Feb 10, 2010 bust here...it kept giving us the least QPF while other models (including eventually the Euro) hammered us.

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I don't see what the big deal is. "The Euro is KING!" why do we always get away from that? Remember last storm when the GFS was east and then it came all the way back to the euro with the low over Central NY? Thats the same thing that will happen here. The Flip flopping of the GFS is absurd right now. One thing is certain though. The Euro tonight is effin huge! The fact that the GFS shows no snow does not bring down my excitement at all.

Anywho, Just trying to remember past major noreasters. I feel that the GFS and NAM always go east and then slowly creep back to the west and then trail a little east <24 hours in until they match the euro. Thats how it always works IMO

If it was the other way around and the GFS was showing a major hit and euro showing a dud, we would say throw out the GFS and go with the Euro. Why not do that here?

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I've seen it score some major coups in snowstorms here, but obviously it has some really exotic runs that are wrong. I believe it was actually the best model in the Feb 10, 2010 bust here...it kept giving us the least QPF while other models (including eventually the Euro) hammered us.

How close in did the EURO nail us in that.....

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I've seen it score some major coups in snowstorms here, but obviously it has some really exotic runs that are wrong. I believe it was actually the best model in the Feb 10, 2010 bust here...it kept giving us the least QPF while other models (including eventually the Euro) hammered us.

It caught the northward extend of the precip in the last Dec. 19th snowstorm...it had it about 3-4 days out I believe. The GFS still had the sharp cut off between Philly and NYC at the time and I believe the Euro was similar.

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How close in did the EURO nail us in that.....

About 24h before...it did back off a bit on its final run which should have been a red flag in retrospect...its easy to try and hindcast that storm, but there's reason almost all of us went bullish in that.

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About 24h before...it did back off a bit on its final run which should have been a red flag in retrospect...its easy to try and hindcast that storm, but there's reason almost all of us went bullish in that.

Can't wait to hear you on the radio show tonight will. I hope you teach us the players at work here and what we need to happen

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About 24h before...it did back off a bit on its final run which should have been a red flag in retrospect...its easy to try and hindcast that storm, but there's reason almost all of us went bullish in that.

Wow, the EURO was off by over a 100 miles with 24 hrs....damn.

I remember nothing about all those events.....mainly because I didn't care because I knew they'd miss and blocked the rest out. lol

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Getting a good laugh at the hand-wringing and pearl-clutching after the GFS puked on itself.

Anyway, on the drive home I noticed how much happier I was knowing a big storm is on the way. People cutting me off? No problem ... a smile and a wave is all I would offer. Riding my bumper? No sweat, I'll let 'em by. Forgetting to turn down the brights? It's alright, we all make mistakes.

Life is good.

Remind me not to cut you off if it rains on Sunday :)

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Wow, the EURO was off by over a 100 miles with 24 hrs....damn.

I remember nothing about all those events.....mainly because I didn't care because I knew they'd miss and blocked the rest out. lol

Well the Euro had been south for many runs leading up to it. Then it finally came north for a couple runs and we though it was game on, but then it ticked back south right before it started....its solutions from 48-72h out ended up being more correct than the 24h solutions.

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Well the Euro had been south for many runs leading up to it. Then it finally came north for a couple runs and we though it was game on, but then it ticked back south right before it started....its solutions from 48-72h out ended up being more correct than the 24h solutions.

If that took place here I'd quit wx. lol

Was it's ens mean similar

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I don't care if the 0z NAM and GFS come out looking like beetle dung. All I need to know is that the Euro pummels us.

This is correct. If they come out as HECS, good for them. They're worth a glance but not much more. Euro all day every day. It's funny how when we're getting screwed people declare it as king and Dr. No, but now when we have two amazing runs inside 100 hours it's oh no the 18z GFS is OTS.

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This is correct. If they come out as HECS, good for them. They're worth a glance but not much more. Euro all day every day. It's funny how when we're getting screwed people declare it as king and Dr. No, but now when we have two amazing runs inside 100 hours it's oh no the 18z GFS is OTS.

NO-CONTEST.jpg?imageSize=Large&generatorName=americabritain

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This is correct. If they come out as HECS, good for them. They're worth a glance but not much more. Euro all day every day. It's funny how when we're getting screwed people declare it as king and Dr. No, but now when we have two amazing runs inside 100 hours it's oh no the 18z GFS is OTS.

I mean they have to be worth something? Why do mets even look at them if theyre worth nothing? Why don't they just look at the euro and nothing else? I think if the GFS and NAM hold serve then there will probably be a compromise between the euro and GFS/NAM. Aka more of an ENE event.

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