Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,514
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    EWR757
    Newest Member
    EWR757
    Joined

Sandy/EC Discussion Part IV


andyhb

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I knew somone would mention it. Common term in The UK where they can cause a lot of damage. The GFLD and HWRF actually show it if you look carefully. There is a sudden temporary increase in winds for a couple frames with little prssure fall. It stays offshore though.

There are common terms because they are so frequently incredible destructive wind producers with massive economic impact out there. From a dynamic standpoint, the true sting jet is obviously on the south side of the storm where the tropopause fold/dry airstream descend to surface. The GFS solution, with that northern jet like feature, is interesting. Not even sure what is truly causing it, but it seems to be gargantuan amounts of convective induced LHR along/above the ridiculous "warm front" (if you want to call it that). Should a feature like that develop it would be European windstorm like damage even as the storm moves inland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

tendency for warm seclusions northern parts of ocean basins and slightly more likely on the "east' ends. Yes the sting jets are the "best" in Europe. Speeds often tend to be close to the 925-850 winds. Recalled having more than a few vessels that we were routing get caught up in warm seclusions.

Yeah I think that is a pretty good general approximation for the types of wind speeds they can produce. There is a recent paper floating around out there that tries to distinguish true sting jets from more typical sting jet like features seen in more typical intense occluded cyclones using various measures such as static stability, CSI, etc. In general, not surprisingly, the lowest static stability and highest cyclone growth rates/intensification favor intense sting jets. This cyclone will have plenty of both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yeah, but even still...the gfs trended more west...the euro went further south. what came north?

I may have misunderstood, but if you go back and look many of the Mets were saying that the tropical models may not be the best guide given that Sandy may be going ET...

Therefore, the GFS, NAM, GGEM, NOGAPS all were around NYC I thought...I could be wrong...probably am

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On this angle of approach it doesn't traverse colder water for that long after passing the north wall of the GS. This is the devastating SE to NW track that I always wondered about, but never saw in my lifetime.

yeah, ryan. I think that intensifying, structural improvements on the models are legit. Shear begins to dropping again after 24 hours and actually gets down to about 20 kt on the north wall of the GS, where the SHIPS also has some slightly intensification.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NAM is definitely not as far north and east as the 18z run...but still pretty far north overall.

Looks like 956mb near Statan Island...maybe Sandy Hook...hard to tell...but that general area. That would be pretty devastating for much of NYC and SNE.

Time to bail on TC based models perhaps? Save perhaps BAM based ones.

Yes it is further west, but less of a turn. End result is a turn into NYC...lol. Same result but less of a turn.

Lots of wiggles. I think for tonight NYC has to be the bullseye for this event. I think that may still change but it looks good (or bad) depending on how you look at it.

Right into JFK.

Gfs is a disaster for NYC and SNE. Much much faster. I think the faster/straighter track is most likely.

This is what I was referring to - I probably misunderstood though

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like it's starting to wrap some convection back over the center of circulation.

it's close and lookin a bit better

love the night time shortwave ir loop , you can pick out the center so easiily

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floaters/18L/flash-swir-long.htmlhttp://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/floaters/18L/flash-swir-long.html

looks like last half of frame's she finally pickin up the pace (like 10-12 mph or so) i know nhc has her a bit slower but i think that's a longer term average movent, last few hours she movin faster

still very interested as HM said (unless he updated his thinking) on wether the western lobe of the giant N atl low can weaken part of ridge temporarily on sunday letting sandy get a tad further east then modeled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I think that is a pretty good general approximation for the types of wind speeds they can produce. There is a recent paper floating around out there that tries to distinguish true sting jets from more typical sting jet like features seen in more typical intense occluded cyclones using various measures such as static stability, CSI, etc. In general, not surprisingly, the lowest static stability and highest cyclone growth rates/intensification favor intense sting jets. This cyclone will have plenty of both.

Can someone break down what a "sting jet" is for this weenie? I wanna be the first one on my block with a conceptual understanding of what will surely be the new weenie catchphrase term. Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of my concerns here is with a faster than expected landfall. Currently, it looks like NHC has a late Monday night/early Tuesday landfall. The model guidance has been trending a little faster, showing landfall by at least Monday evening or the early overnight hours at least from most models I've seen. I don't know the history of all significant NE US hurricanes, although the 1938 LI Express was faster than expected and if I remember correctly Irene was faster than expected as well. While I'm siding with a Monday evening/early night landfall for now, should this be the case with Sandy as well, I would not be surprised if she makes landfall by Monday evening or even the late afternoon. This would be a potentially dangerous situation for those not prepared in time for the worst of the storm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes what is the area that looks most likely to be effected by the "sting jet" in a SNJ-CNJ landfall , i think BI is one of the top mets on this board and this seems like something to focus on for highest damage from winds

I believe the sting jet is generally located on the SW side of the low near the tip of the comma head. The Euro solution seems to imply something like that, with 60-70 kt sustained winds just south of the low center.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...