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Early December Pattern Discussion


Baroclinic Zone

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Well you better deal with it, because December is probably gone except for a miracle. Think Feb and Mar will be decent. Not that is should matter, but I feel a little better about the next 7-14 days than I have in a long time. At least we may have a shot or two at some snow.

Too many conflicting signals with these statements.

I'm throwing the yellow caution flag

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Too many conflicting signals with these statements.

I'm throwing the yellow caution flag

What I mean is that it will take a miracle for a below normal temp and above normal snowy regime to complete the second half of December But, at least some of the long range isn't a total disaster and offers a couple of chances. That's all you can say. I think it looks better than what we've endured...and yes I realize that isn't saying much.

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Oh come on, Steve...this pattern sucks dead rats.

Yea, lets take solace in the fact that we could not sustain a +7 month.rolleyes.gif

It is what is, seen much much worse. Will not take much to switch us on the good side. You can either be hopeful or pessimistic. No one no computer can say how long it lasts. Fact one is it is much different today than last week. Seasonality is setting in.

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A beautiful description of our current dead ratter. Let's hope something shakes it up.

But John....vis a vis Nina...it is not strong.....why would the influence seem outsized? Are we experiencing a lag of a year from last year's strong Nina?

thx Jerry -

yeah, pretty much.. I am a big fan of a Newtonian physical concept in this; namely, 'an object will remain in motion unless acted upon by another object'. that simple precept more than just seems to apply to the atmosphere in my experience. the way it works is simple: an object (the atmosphere), will remain in its character of motion until acted upon by another force sufficiently large enough to change that character.

the last known force sufficiently large was last years Nina regime - although, admittedly i have been remiss to check the most recent numbers; i figure if anything was changing that warranted a check some upstart poster would let us know...

I dunno but what we need is some kind of chaotic emergent process in the system ...whether it be some enormous Kelvin wave, or an AO cold jolt into the middle latitudes.... whatever... but recently there seems to be an absence of necessary perturbations

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It's tough being back in about 1989-91 again wx-wise. I guess we knew history had to repeat eventually and there would be pay back for all the cold and snow. axesmiley.png Back then I had no internet so fewer teases and less temptation to waste a lot of time on futile model runs.

If I wasn't going skiing 12/26-12/30 I wouldn't be as frustrated.

I guess one of the things is that we're just in a boring pattern. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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I'll probably wait until the EC ensembles come out, but we may have a couple of shots before Christmas. They could be OTS or rain, but even though this is not the greatest looking pattern...it does offer some hope as we may have more poleward flow and nrn stream jet dipping into the US, instead of hanging out well north. Hopefully the EC ensembles can continue this at 12z.

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The euro wants something in the 18-21 timeframe...Might be more the latter...but models are going to have a tough time with the sw cutoff. With that sw cutoff...might have to sacrifice one storm in order to get colder air in here for the other. I'm still hoping that period works out.

Either that..or the period later on that HM mentioned. It's going to be tough to figure out what's what with the sw cutoff spewing out disturbances and fooking up timing, but maybe a chance or two before Christmas? I don't care when it is...just hope something comes about.

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Either that..or the period later on that HM mentioned. It's going to be tough to figure out what's what with the sw cutoff spewing out disturbances and fooking up timing, but maybe a chance or two before Christmas? I don't care when it is...just hope something comes about.

Yeah, ECMWF says I probably should have left the original 12/20-23 period alone for a possible snow event. I really don't care when the thing is going to occur, as long as it comes somewhere around the 22nd.

Otherwise, I need to reconfigure my "kook" file (Adam will laugh at that) for long range snow prediction.

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The euro wants something in the 18-21 timeframe...Might be more the latter...but models are going to have a tough time with the sw cutoff. With that sw cutoff...might have to sacrifice one storm in order to get colder air in here for the other. I'm still hoping that period works out.

GFS and Euro are definitely handling it a little differently but the signal is there for some storm type in that time frame

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Yeah, ECMWF says I probably should have left the original 12/20-23 period alone for a possible snow event. I really don't care when the thing is going to occur, as long as it comes somewhere around the 22nd.

Otherwise, I need to reconfigure my "kook" file (Adam will laugh at that) for long range snow prediction.

Well at least something might be on the table, that's all that matters. Thanks for chiming in with all this. You did like that time for a while, hopefully it pans out with something other than Non-Crystalline Precipitation...as the ski areas would say...lol.

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The euro wants something in the 18-21 timeframe...Might be more the latter...but models are going to have a tough time with the sw cutoff. With that sw cutoff...might have to sacrifice one storm in order to get colder air in here for the other. I'm still hoping that period works out.

Aside of the recent fruitcake GFS runs there's been strong hints in those timeframes I outlined a few days ago...around the 20th and again XMas of at least some potential.

This is the Dallas Cowboys pattern change so we have to work with what we've got for now. If we get lucky and the s/w bounces the right way we may get a few threats in a short period...if the Tony Romo NPac ridge chokes we could end up toasty.

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If you look at the euro on Allan's site when it comes out, you can see that it's still a tricky situation.We have a transient type -EPO ridge across the GOA that will move into NW Canada. This in turn will try to help dump cold into the US, but it is all about timing. In this run, we have a front that slips through and thanks to another -EPO ridge..the cold moves in prior to the moisture moving up from the sw...but you can imagine how complicated things can be in this pattern. SW cutoffs can be a huge pain in the but.

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