Rick G Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 1150: China is to donate 10,000 tonnes of diesel and 10,000 tonnes of gasoline to Japan to help counter shortages, China's Xinhua news agency reports.1214: Japanese police have been asked to send watercannon truck to hose down the nuclear plant, Japan's broadcaster NHK is reporting, according to AFP from the bbc. Also take note in the reports from the tepco that that two of the reactors <may> have breaches in the containment vessels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 the siutation is still getting worse..we post info here in a few..the american media is still behind the news curve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 2 water trucks? I assume these water trucks are your typical gasoline trailers we see all around here. All that sea water didn't help, but 2 water trucks will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 2 water trucks? I assume these water trucks are your typical gasoline trailers we see all around here. All that sea water didn't help, but 2 water trucks will? If they are pumpers....well...see my earlier post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Strange...if that was so easy, you'd think they would have tried that early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPPYVALLEY Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Strange...if that was so easy, you'd think they would have tried that early on. Maybe the roads were impassable from where the water cannon trucks were located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 the siutation is still getting worse..we post info here in a few..the american media is still behind the news curve this is all being reported the past 4-5 hours by local japan media: (from rueters and BBC live twitter feeds) they are now pumping water into reactors #5 and #6 also to cool them down they tried to dump water on reactor three using two helicopters but they had to turn back becuase of high radiation. they are now going to try water cannon...one report said they are supplied by the US army France has said they have lost control and in urging its citizens to leave, planes are already in the air for the evacuation..while UK says no danger conflicting info continues to came from the government...a few hours ago the Interior minister said the radiation at the plant has fallen to below a level that will harm humans while at the same time the defense minister said the helicopter operation had to called off becuase of high radiation. So which is it? -------------------------- another question I have is that I was under the impression that all the spent fuel rods were in number 4, there wasn't any in 4,5 or 6....if so then what the hell are they trying to dump water on at #3. remember the inner containment is said to be ok and the active fuel rods are in it so how is the water from the air going to get to the rods inside the reactor. and if there are indded spent fuel rods at number 3 how bad were they damaged in that huge explosion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Maybe the roads were impassable from where the water cannon trucks were located. Fly them in then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LithiaWx Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 this is all being reported the past 4-5 hours by local japan media: (from rueters and BBC live twitter feeds) they are now pumping water into reactors #5 and #6 also to cool them down they tried to dump water on reactor three using two helicopters but they had to turn back becuase of high radiation. they are now going to try water cannon...one report said they are supplied by the US army France has said they have lost control and in urging its citizens to leave, planes are already in the air for the evacuation..while UK says no danger conflicting info continues to came from the government...a few hours ago the Interior minister said the radiation at the plant has fallen to below a level that will harm humans while at the same time the defense minister said the helicopter operation had to called off becuase of high radiation. So which is it? -------------------------- another question I have is that I was under the impression that all the spent fuel rods were in number 4, there wasn't any in 4,5 or 6....if so then what the hell are they trying to dump water on at #3. remember the inner containment is said to be ok and the active fuel rods are in it so how is the water from the air going to ti rods inside the reactor. and if there are spent fuel rods at number 3 how bad were they damaged in that huge explosion It would be an easy choice for me.... If there was conflicting information about something this serious and I lived in Northern Japan. It would be time to get out of there if I had the means to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan11295 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Is is my understanding that the radiation levels spiked earlier, probably around the time the attempted to fly the chopper in (this would have been done in daylight) but the levels have since gone back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 It would be an easy choice for me.... If there was conflicting information about something this serious and I lived in Northern Japan. It would be time to get out of there if I had the means to. The Japanese cabinet secretary says radiation levels around the nuclear plant are not at sufficient levels to cause an immediate health risk.by Reuters_MarkKolmar at 3/16/2011 9:01:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/16/2011 9:01:25 AM" ) ) 4:01 AM Kyodo is reporting that the defence minister says it has not been possible to drop water from helicopter onto the reactor. It says this appears to be due to high radiation levels.by Reuters_MarkKolmar at 3/16/2011 9:15:57 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/16/2011 9:15:57 AM" ) ) 4:15 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Is is my understanding that the radiation levels spiked earlier, probably around the time the attempted to fly the chopper in (this would have been done in daylight) but the levels have since gone back down. nope the helo drop happened only a few hours ago too see above posts(times r US either eastern or central) A military helicopter carried water to pour on the No.3 reactor, NHK says, showing footage of the helicopter taking off with a red container dangling beneathby linda.noakes at 3/16/2011 7:26:02 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/16/2011 7:26:02 AM" ) ) 2:26 AM NHK just showed TWO helicopters filling two fire buckets in the ocean, then flying off (no idea where they filled or what direction they went).comment by Ravlen at 3/16/2011 8:04:41 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/16/2011 8:04:41 AM" ) ) 3:04 AM The Japanese cabinet secretary says radiation levels around the nuclear plant are not at sufficient levels to cause an immediate health risk.by Reuters_MarkKolmar at 3/16/2011 9:01:25 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/16/2011 9:01:25 AM" ) ) 4:01 AM Kyodo is reporting that the defence minister says it has not been possible to drop water from helicopter onto the reactor. It says this appears to be due to high radiation levels.by Reuters_MarkKolmar at 3/16/2011 9:15:57 AMdocument.write( LiveBlog.ConvertServerTimeToLocalTimeFriendlyString( "3/16/2011 9:15:57 AM" ) ) 4:15 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 this is all being reported the past 4-5 hours by local japan media: (from rueters and BBC live twitter feeds) -------------------------- another question I have is that I was under the impression that all the spent fuel rods were in number 4, there wasn't any in 4,5 or 6....if so then what the hell are they trying to dump water on at #3. remember the inner containment is said to be ok and the active fuel rods are in it so how is the water from the air going to get to the rods inside the reactor. and if there are indded spent fuel rods at number 3 how bad were they damaged in that huge explosion From what I've been able to discern, each unit has it's own "spent fuel rod container" in which the rods are water cooled for many months prior to being moved over to the larger cooling pools/racks. Also, Unit 3 is the one with 6% MOX within the reactor, and requires continued cooling, just as the other reactors which had rods within them at the time of the quake shutdown. I've been asking all along about the "back-end shock wave" damage due to the hydrogen explosions. Concerns about seals, gaskets, previous corrosion on 40 year old frequently jostled reactors, have been my preemptive curiosity. I'm not sure if my thoughts answered your question though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinch Leatherwood Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Reading through various articles etc.....one retired operator stated that one final measure is the ability to hook up a fire truck to pump water.....he stated this was on all Mark 1's in America.....and the two he worked at. If so.....I would think having a retired pump truck on site would be standard. He stated that cooling should be easy on the Mark 1's providing you pump water....... He concludes that there must have been damage to the (cant remember exact words) the circulation loop...and explosions damaged other reactors cooling loops. Otherwise hooking up a pumper..cranking it up would be a fine .....last measure and it would work. The mark 1s have weak/weaker containment structures than most other reactors. This type of accident was always feared....cooling loop failure, pressure buildup and then a cracking of the vessel. What we did here in the USA was install more vents so they could directly vent the radiation (nice solution) rather than fix the underlying problem. Typical ingenuity as it pertains to corporate bottom lines. One of GE's lead engineers quit over this very issue. You say no big deal? Search mark 1 incidents, fermi etc. One of our plants went almost ten years with backup generators we didn't know wouldn't work in an emergency. In toledo we had a situation where they wouldn't fire after a tornado. Here at pilgrim they run the same type of reactor with the very same flaw. We knew for 40 years these reactor types were more dangerous than they had to be, but rather than replace them we put band-aides on them. We have narrowly averted our own daichi A couple of times. GE "defends" the reactors...I've got one three miles from my keyboard and although I'm a staunch pro nuclear guy I'm sickened by what I've been reading this morning about the mark 1s. Corporate profits over public safety. --- Water cannons. Why not sling water balloons or get those really powerful kids water guns. The fate of a ne Japan comes down to us army riot gear. Think about this, as we are all still wrapped in the middle of this it's hard to comprehend. The only thing that may potentially avert a nuclear nightmare is a couple of guys using a water cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Just answering some questions, I read somewhere (I can't keep up with links to all of this) that there are 514 spent fuel rods stored in the pool at reactor #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Tour pics taken in 2001 at Dai-Ichi (yes 10 years ago) but it gives a concept of what the interior layout is. Pictures 3 and 4 don't give me a comfy feeling, about the storage pools. http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-572446?ref=feeds%2Flatest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkman Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Couple updates from Kyodo: NEWS ADVISORY: Water injection into ponds at No. 3, No. 4 reactors priority: agency (22:32) NEWS ADVISORY: Spent fuel pool at No. 3 reactor heated, emitting steam: nuke agency (22:27) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What is pouring water on top of a reactor from a helicopter going to accomplish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Couple updates from Kyodo: NEWS ADVISORY: Water injection into ponds at No. 3, No. 4 reactors priority: agency (22:32) NEWS ADVISORY: Spent fuel pool at No. 3 reactor heated, emitting steam: nuke agency (22:27) and there you have it...there is indeed a spent fuel rod pool there too..how much damage did that huge exoplsion do to the pool..are the rods still in the correct positions or are they touching each other now is the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Cove Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Storage Status of Spent Fuel at Fukushima Daiichi NPS (as of March 2010) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What is pouring water on top of a reactor from a helicopter going to accomplish? I was thinking the same thing......but it seems they are dumping water into the spent fuel pool at 3. remember the thought was here yesterday that since the plants were active are 1 2 and 3 that there was no spent rods at their pools) so what is the status of the pools at 1 and 2 also thid would explain why south Korea is sending all the spare boric acid it has to Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaoPos Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What is pouring water on top of a reactor from a helicopter going to accomplish? Might be more of a show to the public than anything. But then again, they could be trying to keep the pools topped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The mark 1s have weak/weaker containment structures than most other reactors. This type of accident was always feared....cooling loop failure, pressure buildup and then a cracking of the vessel. What we did here in the USA was install more vents so they could directly vent the radiation (nice solution) rather than fix the underlying problem. Typical ingenuity as it pertains to corporate bottom lines. One of GE's lead engineers quit over this very issue. You say no big deal? Search mark 1 incidents, fermi etc. One of our plants went almost ten years with backup generators we didn't know wouldn't work in an emergency. In toledo we had a situation where they wouldn't fire after a tornado. Here at pilgrim they run the same type of reactor with the very same flaw. We knew for 40 years these reactor types were more dangerous than they had to be, but rather than replace them we put band-aides on them. We have narrowly averted our own daichi A couple of times. GE "defends" the reactors...I've got one three miles from my keyboard and although I'm a staunch pro nuclear guy I'm sickened by what I've been reading this morning about the mark 1s. Corporate profits over public safety. --- Water cannons. Why not sling water balloons or get those really powerful kids water guns. The fate of a ne Japan comes down to us army riot gear. Think about this, as we are all still wrapped in the middle of this it's hard to comprehend. The only thing that may potentially avert a nuclear nightmare is a couple of guys using a water cannon. I spent 6 years looking out my window at a Mark 1......5-6 days per week.....just outside the security perimeter. I knew the man who helped build it.....who's son became a local nuclear physicist.....who also is ready to call BS in terms of what is going on in Japan. Apparently....there are so many ways to put down a Mark 1......water loop and vents are key. I asked him...what about a damaged loop....he said...think!!....vents are opening......and by having several you can pump and vent....basically flood the dam thing. Melt down.....flood it He spoke of the generators on site....pumpers....water sources....air lift capability.....plans which included being swamped by a tidal surge..... anyway.....he got to pissed off to talk more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhotoGuy Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Nuclear Crisis: Rising Radiation Levels Halt Work at Fukushima Plant Experts Say Nuclear Emergency Nearing 'Point of no Return' BY DAVID MUIR, JESSICA HOPPER, LEEZEL TANGLAO AND BEN FORER March 16, 2011 http://abcnews.go.com/International/japan-nuclear-crisis-rising-radiation-levels-halt-fukushima/story?id=13146516 Surging radiation levels temporarily halted work to cool the troubled reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, raising worries that officials are running out of options to stabilize the escalating catastrophe. "We're very close now to the point of no return," Dr. Michio Kaku, a theoretical physicist, said. "It's gotten worse. We're talking about workers coming into the reactor perhaps as a suicide mission and we may have to abandon ship." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUmetstud Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The NRC recently notified licensees that chlorides – usually from the air at nuclear plants near the ocean, worker sweat or adhesives – have caused cracking on stainless steel piping in pressurized-water reactors. http://nuclearstreet.com/nuclear_power_industry_news/b/nuclear_power_news/archive/2011/02/28/nrc_3a00_-watch-for-stainless-steel-corrosion-from-chlorides-in-pwrs022801.aspx The reactors at the plant are BWRs...but I thought it was relevant given they are directly pumping sea water into a hot reactor. 4214.ML103410363-1 (1).pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Nuclear Crisis: Rising Radiation Levels Halt Work at Fukushima Plant Experts Say Nuclear Emergency Nearing 'Point of no Return' BY DAVID MUIR, JESSICA HOPPER, LEEZEL TANGLAO AND BEN FORER March 16, 2011 http://abcnews.go.com/International/japan-nuclear-crisis-rising-radiation-levels-halt-fukushima/story?id=13146516 Surging radiation levels temporarily halted work to cool the troubled reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, raising worries that officials are running out of options to stabilize the escalating catastrophe. "We're very close now to the point of no return," Dr. Michio Kaku, a theoretical physicist, said. "It's gotten worse. We're talking about workers coming into the reactor perhaps as a suicide mission and we may have to abandon ship." thats old info..the workers are back... in fact now up to 180 workers according to TEPCO reported 8 hours ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I spent 6 years looking out my window at a Mark 1......5-6 days per week.....just outside the security perimeter. I knew the man who helped build it.....who's son became a local nuclear physicist.....who also is ready to call BS in terms of what is going on in Japan. Apparently....there are so many ways to put down a Mark 1......water loop and vents are key. I asked him...what about a damaged loop....he said...think!!....vents are opening......and by having several you can pump and vent....basically flood the dam thing. Melt down.....flood it He spoke of the generators on site....pumpers....water sources....air lift capability.....plans which included being swamped by a tidal surge..... anyway.....he got to pissed off to talk more.... I am pretty sure the Japanese are aware of what needs to be done in a theoretical sense and are trying to execute. It is easy to think you have the answer thousands of miles away in suburban NJ, with all due respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 CNN's Chad Myers is a super-stud: meteorologist par excellence, seismologist, nuclear physicist, terrorism expert, engineer, technology wizard...what can this man NOT do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Festus Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 In the never ending battle of correct information gathering, here's a snippet from inside a Foxnews article - "At one point, national broadcaster NHK showed military helicopters lifting off to survey radiation levels above the complex, preparing to dump water onto the most troubled reactors in a desperate effort to cool them down. The defense ministry later said those flights were a drill, and it had no plans to make an airborne water drop. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano had already warned that dropping water via helicopter might not work." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janetjanet998 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 In the never ending battle of correct information gathering, here's a snippet from inside a Foxnews article - "At one point, national broadcaster NHK showed military helicopters lifting off to survey radiation levels above the complex, preparing to dump water onto the most troubled reactors in a desperate effort to cool them down. The defense ministry later said those flights were a drill, and it had no plans to make an airborne water drop. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano had already warned that dropping water via helicopter might not work." now being reported that it was called off becuase a "scout" helo ahead of it near the plants detected high radiation''' , there were clearly helo's filling up water buckets not just to survey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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