Extended summer stormlover74 future snow hole banter thread 23

[Stormlover74]

2 hours ago, North and West said:

Never. People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.


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Even if the pattern flips everything has to go perfectly to get a big snow at the coast. We could be cold with a storm suppressed or too far offshore or a coastal hugger and we end up flipping to rain. I mean eventually our luck has to change but that could very well take til next winter

[JerseyWx]

11 minutes ago, Stormlover74 said:

Even if the pattern flips everything has to go perfectly to get a big snow at the coast. We could be cold with a storm suppressed or too far offshore or a coastal hugger and we end up flipping to rain. I mean eventually our luck has to change but that could very well take til next winter

Yeah I mean at this point you got 2 weeks of February to work with.  March is never a month to count on snow when you're already in the hole and BN.  It does tend to be snowier than December (not that it would be a hard thing to achieve this year) but it could also go the opposite way and be mild.

[North and West]

Politics. Still clinging to its “just natural variability” the oil industry has allot of money and allot of PR firms. 

I believe it’s also the religious aspect of it that’s off-putting. As humans, we find a need to belong to a tribe, and every religious order throughout history has its own set of rules which banishes and shames heretics. Climate change politics (disclosure, it is occurring) demands the same adherence to commandments from an elite with the same doomsday warnings if not followed as any religious sect. It doesn’t allow a devil’s advocate.

For instance, when you read of Jesus’ teachings and guidance, you think, wow, this is terrific. When you hear of him walking on water, you think… that probably didn’t happen. To some people, that’s heresy, and you’re banished.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.


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[Volcanic Winter]

We aren’t well equipped as a species to deal with long term issues that aren’t an immediate threat in our immediate surroundings (think back to hunter gatherer times). A lot of people also operate on the assumption that all things being publicized and discussed today as issues are hyperbolic, there’s some truth to that of course and I don’t blame people for being skeptical. But skepticism is not obstinate contrarianism, which is what you end up getting in a lot of people who fight tooth and nail over it. I’m of the persuasion after reading papers from the last two years that the warnings haven’t been severe enough, but I understand why this is “off putting.” I disagree it’s like a religion though, it’s very bluntly a cause and effect. You can’t warn people of the consequences without discussing the consequences, lol. People aren’t innately aware of this stuff. With that said, there’s always poorly written and irresponsible journalism out there, but that’s not exclusive to the subject of climate change. I always recommend people try to digest climate info from academic sources, anyway - obviously most of the lay public won’t be doing that.

Unfortunately, this is a problem that will continue to grow and magnify whether or not individuals choose to “believe” in it or not. We have enough analogues from previous natural climate excursions to have a good idea what awaits us if we continue on the present course.

I take care to only post things I’m reasonably confident are factual or at least broadly correct. Most people love to just diarrhea their opinions all over and weigh them equally to actual observable truths. That’s never been helpful, and it’s a big constituent force of climate denialism. But we’re living through an era where some people suggest facts are malleable, so it’s sort of par for the course.

Try to get out and enjoy the cryosphere. Nothing in the world more beautiful than a glacier, IMHO.

(Glacial lagoon in Iceland under Vatnajökull from our trip this past November)

[LibertyBell]

29 minutes ago, Volcanic Winter said:

We aren’t well equipped as a species to deal with long term issues that aren’t an immediate threat in our immediate surroundings (think back to hunter gatherer times). A lot of people also operate on the assumption that all things being publicized and discussed today as issues are hyperbolic, there’s some truth to that of course and I don’t blame people for being skeptical. But skepticism is not obstinate contrarianism, which is what you end up getting in a lot of people who fight tooth and nail over it. I’m of the persuasion after reading papers from the last two years that the warnings haven’t been severe enough, but I understand why this is “off putting.” I disagree it’s like a religion though, it’s very bluntly a cause and effect. You can’t warn people of the consequences without discussing the consequences, lol. People aren’t innately aware of this stuff. With that said, there’s always poorly written and irresponsible journalism out there, but that’s not exclusive to the subject of climate change. I always recommend people try to digest climate info from academic sources, anyway - obviously most of the lay public won’t be doing that.

Unfortunately, this is a problem that will continue to grow and magnify whether or not individuals choose to “believe” in it or not. We have enough analogues from previous natural climate excursions to have a good idea what awaits us if we continue on the present course.

I take care to only post things I’m reasonably confident are factual or at least broadly correct. Most people love to just diarrhea their opinions all over and weigh them equally to actual observable truths. That’s never been helpful, and it’s a big constituent force of climate denialism. But we’re living through an era where some people suggest facts are malleable, so it’s sort of par for the course.

Try to get out and enjoy the cryosphere. Nothing in the world more beautiful than a glacier, IMHO.

(Glacial lagoon in Iceland under Vatnajökull from our trip this past November)

This just triggered something I read last week-- are you aware that scientists are constructing artificial glaciers to replace the ones that are melting?

[rclab]

24 minutes ago, LibertyBell said:

This just triggered something I read last week-- are you aware that scientists are constructing artificial glaciers to replace the ones that are melting?

Liberty you just triggered me to look it up. Old saying, ‘necessity is the mother of invention’. Stay well, as always …..

 

[Roger Smith]

RJay if you wander in, your inbox is full, you can probably guess my message anyway. TIA. 

 

[Cygnus X-1]

22 hours ago, Volcanic Winter said:

We’ve released about 2400 Gigatons of CO2 since 1850 and raised CO2 PPM from 280 to over 400 in a 150 years. During the Permian Mass Extinction 3,900 to 12,000 Gigatons of CO2 were released by the Siberian Traps bringing CO2 PPM from about 400 to over 2,000. This occurred over about a 60,000 year period. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian–Triassic_extinction_event
 

Yeah, and I live on a GIANT glacial moraine in NY called Long Island.

Was it Mammoth farts that melted the Laurentide Ice Sheet?

Hot dogs!!!

[Volcanic Winter]

12 hours ago, Cygnus X-1 said:

Yeah, and I live on a GIANT glacial moraine in NY called Long Island.

Was it Mammoth farts that melted the Laurentide Ice Sheet?

Hot dogs!!!

Changes in the Milankovitch cycle, a degree of ocean warming leading to Heinrich events, and other subtle feedback processes drove the disintegration of the ice sheet. About 8000 years ago solar insolation was higher than today, which helped polish off the remnants of the ice sheet. 

I’d be curious about the ‘mammoth fart hypothesis,’ though. They were pretty big and I’m sure their farts were rather vile .

https://www.futurity.org/laurentide-ice-age-sea-level-rise-1366092/

https://serc.carleton.edu/vignettes/collection/58451.html#:~:text=After 20%2C000 years ago%2C Earth,the modern Greenland Ice Sheet.

[LibertyBell]

11 minutes ago, Volcanic Winter said:

Changes in the Milankovitch cycle, a degree of ocean warming leading to Heinrich events, and other subtle feedback processes drove the disintegration of the ice sheet. About 8000 years ago solar insolation was higher than today, which helped polish off the remnants of the ice sheet. 

I’d be curious about the ‘mammoth fart hypothesis,’ though. They were pretty big and I’m sure their farts were rather vile .

https://www.futurity.org/laurentide-ice-age-sea-level-rise-1366092/

https://serc.carleton.edu/vignettes/collection/58451.html#:~:text=After 20%2C000 years ago%2C Earth,the modern Greenland Ice Sheet.

the overpopulation of humans and their livestock has much more of an effect than any limited population of mammoths ever did.

also-- it's worth noting-- humans drove the mammoths to extinction (along with many other creatures.)

[gravitylover]

15 hours ago, Cygnus X-1 said:

Yeah, and I live on a GIANT glacial moraine in NY called Long Island.

Was it Mammoth farts that melted the Laurentide Ice Sheet?

Hot dogs!!!

Lush grasses, fruits and beans moved north into their territory as the climate changed. This made them more gaseous than before...

[Mikeymac5306]

23 hours ago, rclab said:

Liberty you just triggered me to look it up. Old saying, ‘necessity is the mother of invention’. Stay well, as always …..

 

Looks like one of those drippy sand castles you make at the beach. 

[rclab]

2 hours ago, Mikeymac5306 said:

Looks like one of those drippy sand castles you make at the beach. 

Good afternoon Mm5306. In order to avoid a sand castles destiny, I imagine this prototype will have to expand many fold. This just to fill the space of the original. As we continue to warm that may become quite the problematic task. Stay well, as always …..

[rclab]

18 hours ago, Cygnus X-1 said:

Yeah, and I live on a GIANT glacial moraine in NY called Long Island.

Was it Mammoth farts that melted the Laurentide Ice Sheet?

Hot dogs!!!

 

5 hours ago, Volcanic Winter said:

Changes in the Milankovitch cycle, a degree of ocean warming leading to Heinrich events, and other subtle feedback processes drove the disintegration of the ice sheet. About 8000 years ago solar insolation was higher than today, which helped polish off the remnants of the ice sheet. 

I’d be curious about the ‘mammoth fart hypothesis,’ though. They were pretty big and I’m sure their farts were rather vile .

https://www.futurity.org/laurentide-ice-age-sea-level-rise-1366092/

https://serc.carleton.edu/vignettes/collection/58451.html#:~:text=After 20%2C000 years ago%2C Earth,the modern Greenland Ice Sheet.

Good afternoon C X-1, V W. Interesting question. Stay well, as always …..

 

[gravitylover]

So if we get rid of all the cows and assorted other blowhards we should be able to cool the earth sufficient to get that snowfall average back up 

[North and West]

So if we get rid of all the cows and assorted other blowhards we should be able to cool the earth sufficient to get that snowfall average back up 

That would take out the majority of this forum.


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[Dark Star]

On 1/31/2024 at 5:15 PM, LibertyBell said:

Indeed, I blame world governments for a lot of it and the UN for allowing fossil fuel lobbyists to participate in the discussions.  They need to be made to realize they are part of the past and will have NO role in the future of the planet.  And while we're at it, we need to ban corporate lobbying and dark money altogether.

 

 

If you noticed, most countries in Europe are abandoning their lofty renewable goals.  

[Dark Star]

8 minutes ago, North and West said:

That would take out the majority of this forum.


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IF you do the math, and compare the amount of greenhouse gas emitted by bovine before and after Europeans made it to the Americas, there is not a significant difference between the two periods. If that 20% is going to make or break us, then I call Shenanigans...

[North and West]

If you noticed, most countries in Europe are abandoning their lofty renewable goals.  

Nuclear.

How we have a technology that can produce near limitless clean energy but we don’t use it is annoying.


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[LongBeachSurfFreak]

1 hour ago, North and West said:

Nuclear.

How we have a technology that can produce near limitless clean energy but we don’t use it is annoying.


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Yeah you gotta watch the Oliver stone doc on nuclear, incredible. Some amazing safe small scale tech now exists. But unfortunately country’s like Germany are shutting down their remaining reactors, in favor of so called green tech like burning trees. Which they import without hesitation from all over the world.

The real fix will come when we have viable fusion, that’s the game changer. 

[psv88]

2 hours ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

Yeah you gotta watch the Oliver stone doc on nuclear, incredible. Some amazing safe small scale tech now exists. But unfortunately country’s like Germany are shutting down their remaining reactors, in favor of so called green tech like burning trees. Which they import without hesitation from all over the world.

The real fix will come when we have viable fusion, that’s the game changer. 

Fusion tech may never actually come to be. Even if it does develop it won’t be for 200 years where it can actually be used 

[LibertyBell]

5 hours ago, North and West said:

Nuclear.

How we have a technology that can produce near limitless clean energy but we don’t use it is annoying.


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giving up nuclear for coal is like punching yourself in the nose repeatedly to stop yourself from sneezing.

[LibertyBell]

47 minutes ago, psv88 said:

Fusion tech may never actually come to be. Even if it does develop it won’t be for 200 years where it can actually be used 

I mean it'll probably happen and within our lifetimes but any new tech costs a ton at first and take decades to deploy on a widespread basis.

[LibertyBell]

3 hours ago, LongBeachSurfFreak said:

Yeah you gotta watch the Oliver stone doc on nuclear, incredible. Some amazing safe small scale tech now exists. But unfortunately country’s like Germany are shutting down their remaining reactors, in favor of so called green tech like burning trees. Which they import without hesitation from all over the world.

The real fix will come when we have viable fusion, that’s the game changer. 

they're going back to coal for some odd reason.  China is doing that too, which is even more of a concern because of their population.  They think they can go to coal now and then reverse course in time to be carbon neutral by 2060.

[LibertyBell]

5 hours ago, North and West said:

That would take out the majority of this forum.


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the majority of the forum are cows?

 

[North and West]

Yeah you gotta watch the Oliver stone doc on nuclear, incredible. Some amazing safe small scale tech now exists. But unfortunately country’s like Germany are shutting down their remaining reactors, in favor of so called green tech like burning trees. Which they import without hesitation from all over the world.
The real fix will come when we have viable fusion, that’s the game changer. 

Yup. Look at our Navy. They run on small scale reactors. If we did that, think of the decrease in emissions.


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[North and West]

giving up nuclear for coal is like punching yourself in the nose repeatedly to stop yourself from sneezing.

That’s one of the things that drives me batty about all of this… we don’t *have* to go put giant wind turbines in the ocean. We have the ability to do all clean energy now with nuclear. We consciously choose not to.




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[Dark Star]

13 hours ago, North and West said:

Nuclear.

How we have a technology that can produce near limitless clean energy but we don’t use it is annoying.


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Disposal problems...

[Dark Star]

7 hours ago, LibertyBell said:

they're going back to coal for some odd reason.  China is doing that too, which is even more of a concern because of their population.  They think they can go to coal now and then reverse course in time to be carbon neutral by 2060.

China has been using coal and expanding their coal.  We should not have to make up the excesses that China produces.  We are already the leader in reducing our net greenhouse emissions...

[LibertyBell]

43 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

China has been using coal and expanding their coal.  We should not have to make up the excesses that China produces.  We are already the leader in reducing our net greenhouse emissions...

Yep, China and India are both going in the wrong direction and the end result of that is high levels of air pollution, smoggy skies and severe migraines and breathing problems for millions of people especially near the big cities.  Those are two countries I would not want to visit for a long time.