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7 minutes ago, Damage In Tolland said:

This is just the tip of the iceberg. As health problems start becoming more apparent and widespread among the adult population, things are going get ugly in many facets 

It amazes me how people are so afraid of the side effects of a vaccine, rather than the Long term complications from a virus we know very little about.

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7 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

I mean that heart stuff happened to a lot of people who got COVID.  Isn’t the vaccine like a watered down version?  I’d assume some of the side effects are identical to the virus... doesn’t seem that shocking but maybe I don’t understand vaccines as well.

It’s not shocking, but why even risk it with kids when their threat of severe COVID is extremely low. 

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3 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

It amazes me how people are so afraid of the side effects of a vaccine, rather than the Long term complications from a virus we know very little about.

Myocarditis isn't something to be fooled around with. It can be fatal. We're not talking about a sore arm, or some chills and a fever. 

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7 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

It amazes me how people are so afraid of the side effects of a vaccine, rather than the Long term complications from a virus we know very little about.

We’ve known since April of last year all we needed to know. It’s a virus that predominantly affects seniors and those with vulnerable health risks and the vast majority of the rest of the population gets it and recovers like any other flu, many times with little to no effects. If folks bought into some unknown fear factor, that’s on them . I suspect the people still wearing masks in public , driving cars etc after being vaccinated are those folks .

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11 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It’s not shocking, but why even risk it with kids when their threat of sever COVID is extremely low. 

Unless I am missing some science , There really is no justification in giving young kids Covid vaccine given that there risk from Covid is so low it doesn’t justify the uncertainty of medium to long term effects of vaccines that would normally be in safety trials right now . That really is a fact 

Maybe the medium to LT risks will be minuscule but that is why they have had the process 

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12 minutes ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

It amazes me how people are so afraid of the side effects of a vaccine, rather than the Long term complications from a virus we know very little about.

Yeah, a virus that likely escaped a lab and was being mucked around with prior. I'd be more wary of this specific virus, which seems to act like a pinball inside of the human body (in a certain % of those who get it).

That being said..no way I'm giving these vaccines to my 3 year old any time soon, given the very low risk in that age group.  I'm mainly speaking about adults. 

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The problem here is 'null data space'

Say we're faced with a infection illness that needs per capita bodies to actually infect -

You cannot prove, 100% assurance, that not inoculating would result is say X numbers of casualties - in the same vein, you cannot prove 100% assurance, that the inoculating is why there are Y infection rates.

See how that works ? 
 

It doesn't lend to the argument of "needing" to inoculate when in hind-site...looking at the case totals and death totals and present daily new case loads...etc...etc... we don't in fact know whether not inoculated would mean more victims - we can guess that it would ... duh, with reasonable confidence.  But the space between not acting to prevent, and the end result numbers being what they are, is a gap that cannot be proven either way.

Here's something to consider:   "IF" there were no vaccines and a lax societal scaffolding of measures evolved to have combated this thing... that means that its mutation rate/variance potential is much greater.   That really adds a kind of 'dire' prospect/spectrum of realizing horrors. The 'null space' is actually filled with possibilities in that sense...just nothing real.    Who's to know or could say no, on the mutation being part of this ?  No one can. 

Maybe in such an alternate -plausible - reality, the mutated version is a baby killer.  You don't know the null space.   You don't ....   So, yeah, ...it's always a dumb idea to get into arguing hypotheticals because it quickly devolves into a non-winnable debate ...ultimately, evasive for the side that may be wrong - if one can even be ascertained...and on and so on...  

But there is an element of plausible truth to this, that letting a virus run rampant from host to host ... carries secondary and tertiary emergent scenarios that by virtue of null-space, cannot be determinantly proven one way or the other.

What the vaccines may do - is protect us from an uncertainty curve that ...mmm most likely doesn't end well should the curves become reality.  

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14 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

It’s not shocking, but why even risk it with kids when their threat of severe COVID is extremely low. 

Oh I’m completely with you on kids.  I don’t have any right now so don’t even think about it.  I mean if their risk is so low I wouldn’t touch it.

I did it for myself with the understanding that I may feel like shit a little bit but my chances of dying or being hospitalized seem gone.

I don’t think I’ve ever got the flu but I get a flu shot every year.  Once maybe 5 years ago I got smoked by a flu shot for like 3 days in bed afterward.  Rare but happens I guess.

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1 hour ago, HoarfrostHubb said:

The CDC has yet to determine if the vaccines were the cause of the reported heart condition.

“What’s important to know and to recognize is that the rates that we’re seeing of myocarditis are no higher than what we would experience normally,” Dr. Ted O’Connell told NBC San Diego. “So, we don’t know if it’s associated with the vaccine or not.”

screaming this from the rooftops. 

it may have NOTHING to do with the vaccine. the money line is the part that the rates are no higher than normal. Ridiculous click-bait headline and article, yet again.

I got the vaccine a few weeks ago. the very next day, I had a hangover. the headline: Local man hungover after being vaccinated.

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Just now, powderfreak said:

Oh I’m completely with you on kids.  I don’t have any right now so don’t even think about it.  I mean if their risk is so low I wouldn’t touch it.

I did it for myself with the understanding that I may feel like shit a little bit but my chances of dying or being hospitalized seem gone.

I don’t think I’ve ever got the flu but I get a flu shot every year.  Once maybe 5 years ago I got smoked by a flu shot for like 3 days in bed afterward.  Rare but happens I guess.

Yeah, the vaccine definitely makes sense as an option for adults. There are many reasons why an adult could and should get the vaccine. But the talk of vaccinating kids as young as 18 months is just messed up. 

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15 minutes ago, SouthCoastMA said:

Yeah, a virus that likely escaped a lab and was being mucked around with prior. I'd be more wary of this specific virus, which seems to act like a pinball inside of the human body (in a certain % of those who get it).

That being said..no way I'm giving these vaccines to my 3 year old any time soon, given the very low risk in that age group.  I'm mainly speaking about adults. 

The first sentence is one that would have a ton more focus on it if this lab was in Russia or Iran .
 

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6 minutes ago, SJonesWX said:

screaming this from the rooftops. 

it may have NOTHING to do with the vaccine. the money line is the part that the rates are no higher than normal. Ridiculous click-bait headline and article, yet again.

I got the vaccine a few weeks ago. the very next day, I had a hangover. the headline: Local man hungover after being vaccinated.

What you say is true .

However was This was also said from the rooftops about blood clotting side effects in AstraZeneca in the trials ? 

Seems  The article is assuming the total folks reporting effects so far will be the final amount effected and If that’s the case then the article would be right . But.. it’s early 

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Is it me or does pine pollen last longer than normal.  Since we've been in our house we used to have a 3-5 day pine pollen season.  Now it's 1-2 weeks. Sheets and sheets every day for weeks on end.   Is there scientifically any variability in this? 

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4 minutes ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

The first sentence is one that would have a ton more focus on it if this lab was in Russia or Iran .
 

Either the US is sorta holding this as an ace in its sleeve for leverage or threatening China in future or something seems off. 

Everyone seems scared to call China out on anything. Its actually sickening. From NBA sponsors to Governments.

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1 minute ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

What you say is true .

However was This was also said from the rooftops about blood clotting side effects in AstraZeneca in the trials ? 

Seems  The article is assuming the total folks reporting effects so far will be the final amount effected and If that’s the case then the article would be right . But.. it’s early 

part of the problem is that people only read/see the headline, exp. on social media. most humans are too lazy to read the whole thing.

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"We’re Not Ready for the Next Pandemic
We’re learning the wrong lessons from the search for COVID-19’s origins."

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/wx5ndx/china-coronavirus-origins-who-mission

Superior, insightful article written by a Chinese scientist, Yangyang Cheng, who works in the US. Cheng adds a much needed geopolitical analysis to the ongoing debate regarding the search for the origins of the virus. She raises important issues regarding sovereign authority, genetic resources, and cross border data sharing. A quote from one of Cheng's closing paragraphs:

(To be clear, Cheng doesn't pick sides regarding lab leak vs zoonotic theories)

"The novel coronavirus originated in nature. It has no agenda, no morals or political belief. Its presence among our species is a result of human activity. It is an indictment on all of humanity that when confronted with a common threat, the immediate response from governments has been more artificial divisions to determine who deserves to live and who must die. In the eyes of a state, security is not about preserving life but sustaining power. People are sacrificed to secure the fragile pride of a flag. The future is bartered to fulfill capitalism’s endless demand for profit. Truth gives way to partisan motives."

I share the quote as an enticement to read Cheng's article; it's not worth offering commentary on just that quote if you haven't read the whole article.

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27 minutes ago, WhitinsvilleWX said:

No. Its just the spike protein that being made to induce an immune response. 

And by doing that it causes a very similar type of side effects?  I always thought it was sort of like getting a synthetic virus vs. the real thing, ha.  I guess if it elicits a similar immune reaction it makes sense that the side effects will be similar to the actual virus.

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5 minutes ago, natedizel said:

Ya i know and thats not good. China knows this

Might as well just let the chinese army and politicians into Washington DC.

Just FYI, China is not really a threat. They are just the latest fear bogeyman being used by the government now that the Muslim terrorism fear that has carried us since the 1990s has petered out.

The real enemy is the tiny elite that controls over 50% of wealth worldwide and wields enormous power over governments and militaries.

China just very aggressively wants to "do business" with the world and have their status as a great power recognized. They have zero interest in starting a war with their best trading partners. The modern history of China is a series of humiliations forced on them by other world powers; you need to grasp that history to understand why they seem paranoid and aggressive sometimes.

If the common man wants to get fired up and take the fight to the enemy, he should get a mob together and visit people like Bezos, Zuckerberg, Dorsey, the banking families, and various politicians. That's a good start.

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1 hour ago, TauntonBlizzard2013 said:

It amazes me how people are so afraid of the side effects of a vaccine, rather than the Long term complications from a virus we know very little about.

I know right??!?!  This is not that difficult of a decision-the effects of the virus are way worse....the vax was not all that rushed out-it was developed after the SARS outbreak in 2003 so it's been in the works for 17-18 yrs

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38 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

If the common man wants to get fired up and take the fight to the enemy, he should get a mob together and visit people like Bezos, Zuckerberg, Dorsey, the banking families, and various politicians. That's a good start.

I really don’t see the merit in that 

There is always someone at the top and tremendous influence comes with that ..but evil ...mmm I dunno . But these are just the leads in a System that will have someone else behind them . Banking families sounds a little kooky to me and I understand the backdrop and have watched the YouTube vids and read the articles but again no System is without its drawbacks looking back on banking . I would argue The banking cartel has done a better job protecting the currency then kings and queens have. They are all devaluing in unison and the dollar is still at the top . 

I would argue the cancel culture and perversion and spin of Most social movements Are threats As well as think like me or else you get called names .

Also for China To be the next bogeyman they Really would need a lot more aggressive rhetoric and daily propaganda attacking them , not the sort of hands off mentality that has been given to them 

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

I mean that heart stuff happened to a lot of people who got COVID.  Isn’t the vaccine like a watered down version? I’d assume some of the side effects are identical to the virus... doesn’t seem that shocking but maybe I don’t understand vaccines as well.

No!   

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

I mean that heart stuff happened to a lot of people who got COVID.  Isn’t the vaccine like a watered down version?  I’d assume some of the side effects are identical to the virus... doesn’t seem that shocking but maybe I don’t understand vaccines as well.

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are mRNA not dead/neutered virus, to create antibodies without exposure to C-19.  I think J&J is a more old-style vaccine but that's somewhat a guess - once I got the Moderna my interest in J&J dropped precipitously.

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17 minutes ago, PhineasC said:

Just FYI, China is not really a threat. They are just the latest fear bogeyman being used by the government now that the Muslim terrorism fear that has carried us since the 1990s has petered out.

The real enemy is the tiny elite that controls over 50% of wealth worldwide and wields enormous power over governments and militaries.

China just very aggressively wants to "do business" with the world and have their status as a great power recognized. They have zero interest in starting a war with their best trading partners. The modern history of China is a series of humiliations forced on them by other world powers; you need to grasp that history to understand why they seem paranoid and aggressive sometimes.

If the common man wants to get fired up and take the fight to the enemy, he should get a mob together and visit people like Bezos, Zuckerberg, Dorsey, the banking families, and various politicians. That's a good start.

Ya i understand where your coming from with all that. But being secretive everytime you have a SARS outbreak isnt helping the world.

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50 minutes ago, amarshall said:

Is it me or does pine pollen last longer than normal.  Since we've been in our house we used to have a 3-5 day pine pollen season.  Now it's 1-2 weeks. Sheets and sheets every day for weeks on end.   Is there scientifically any variability in this? 

I think it's the lack of rain more than anything else driving this....

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