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7 minutes ago, DeltaT13 said:

I think we get the christmas eve  cold front, that seems fairly locked in.  But chasing a wave that develops along the front 7 days out is a long shot.  Very tricky evolution for that to work out. 

Definitely. Seems the energy is there for a wave, just a matter of timing. The EC has the primary LP much further south, then slowing move it NE, then retros to Hudson Bay. Either scenario will bring snow to WNY Christmas Eve night to the next several days. EC would bring big lake snows with prolonged SW flow.

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2 minutes ago, vortmax said:

Definitely. Seems the energy is there for a wave, just a matter of timing. The EC has the primary LP much further south, then slowing move it NE, then retros to Hudson Bay. Either scenario will bring snow to WNY Christmas Eve night to the next several days. EC would bring big lake snows with prolonged SW flow.

I'm all about what happens after the front, but that wave development just seems nearly implausible, very rare to see a low develop that quickly and deeply while racing up a front. The timing would have to be impeccable, and even then, the snow would move in and out at break neck speed.  But you know what, we have something to track and hang our christmas hopes on, so for that I am grateful.  

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1 minute ago, DeltaT13 said:

I'm all about what happens after the front, but that wave development just seems nearly implausible, very rare to see a low develop that quickly and deeply while racing up a front. The timing would have to be impeccable, and even then, the snow would move in and out at break neck speed.  But you know what, we have something to track and hang our christmas hopes on, so for that I am grateful.  

I just don't see the front stalling when attached to a deepening sub 280 LP...unless a wave develops, of course. Either way, yes, grateful for something significant looking to take shape on Christmas Eve. Could be lots of fun, for a change!!

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Slightly off topic but the super conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn occurs on Monday. The 2 planets are so close together ( 1/5 the diameter of the moon) then it will give the impression of the Christmas star.  Even this weekend they will be really close to each other.  Look in the southwestern sky right after sunset near where the sun sets. 

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4 minutes ago, CNY_WX said:

Slightly off topic but the super conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn occurs on Monday. The 2 planets are so close together ( 1/5 the diameter of the moon) then it will give the impression of the Christmas star.  Even this weekend they will be really close to each other.  Look in the southwestern sky right after sunset near where the sun sets. 

I believe, if memory serves me, this is the first time in 800 years they’re visible this close?

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.A Massive Pattern Shift on Tap for the Holidays...

After the passage of the last system for the short term, high
pressure will briefly build into the area and result in dry
conditions, however southerly flow will start to muster as it
passes with progressively warmer air flowing into the region
through Christmas Eve morning. This will result in 850 hPa
temperatures surging toward +6C and any mixes of rain/snow
trending decidedly toward rain as the next very amplified
system approaches the region. Multi-model and ensemble consensus
along with standard deviation anomaly charts favor a massively
anomalous event in the period staring Christmas eve and
extending through Christmas. This looks to result in very warm
conditions and rain to start that time frame.

In the warm advection ahead of the system, a negatively-tiled
mid-level short wave looks to advance northeastward toward the
area in a strengthening and highly-curved upper jet pattern.
This would result in the potential for rather explosive
cyclogenesis as the wave advances toward our area. Further,
850-700 and 700-500 hPa theta-e lapse rates go negative in a
pattern with a negatively-tilted short wave traversing the area,
which would be indicative of both a heavy precipitation
potential as well as a thunder potential for Christmas eve. This
is not to mention the presence of 120 kts of 0-6 km shear! With
all of this in mind, it seems pretty clear the models are
pointing at either a thunderstorm chance along the front or a
very highly convective shower-line passage with the front.
Either way, there will be a potential for very gusty conditions
as the front crosses the area, which seems poised to most likely
be on Christmas eve at this juncture.

With the passage of the front, drastically colder air will
invade the region, dropping those pre-frontal +6C 850 hPa
temperatures down toward a consensus of -16 to -20C. This will
get the lake effect machine going into Christmas and beyond with
temperatures falling off well below normal by that juncture
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48 minutes ago, CNY_WX said:

Slightly off topic but the super conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn occurs on Monday. The 2 planets are so close together ( 1/5 the diameter of the moon) then it will give the impression of the Christmas star.  Even this weekend they will be really close to each other.  Look in the southwestern sky right after sunset near where the sun sets. 

“The Christmas Star”. So cool!

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33 minutes ago, wolfie09 said:

.A Massive Pattern Shift on Tap for the Holidays...

After the passage of the last system for the short term, high
pressure will briefly build into the area and result in dry
conditions, however southerly flow will start to muster as it
passes with progressively warmer air flowing into the region
through Christmas Eve morning. This will result in 850 hPa
temperatures surging toward +6C and any mixes of rain/snow
trending decidedly toward rain as the next very amplified
system approaches the region. Multi-model and ensemble consensus
along with standard deviation anomaly charts favor a massively
anomalous event in the period staring Christmas eve and
extending through Christmas. This looks to result in very warm
conditions and rain to start that time frame.

In the warm advection ahead of the system, a negatively-tiled
mid-level short wave looks to advance northeastward toward the
area in a strengthening and highly-curved upper jet pattern.
This would result in the potential for rather explosive
cyclogenesis as the wave advances toward our area. Further,
850-700 and 700-500 hPa theta-e lapse rates go negative in a
pattern with a negatively-tilted short wave traversing the area,
which would be indicative of both a heavy precipitation
potential as well as a thunder potential for Christmas eve. This
is not to mention the presence of 120 kts of 0-6 km shear! With
all of this in mind, it seems pretty clear the models are
pointing at either a thunderstorm chance along the front or a
very highly convective shower-line passage with the front.
Either way, there will be a potential for very gusty conditions
as the front crosses the area, which seems poised to most likely
be on Christmas eve at this juncture.

With the passage of the front, drastically colder air will
invade the region, dropping those pre-frontal +6C 850 hPa
temperatures down toward a consensus of -16 to -20C. This will
get the lake effect machine going into Christmas and beyond with
temperatures falling off well below normal by that juncture

I love the wording on this. I get the feeling by the time we get to Sunday night Monday you will see some verbiage from KBUF regarding a big lake effect event for next weekend 

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39 minutes ago, wolfie09 said:

.A Massive Pattern Shift on Tap for the Holidays...


Seems a little rambunctious regarding an XMas eve storm considering it's a week away and NWP hasn't showed much of a wave with much consistency the past few days.  LES potential sure...but that usually only impacts a few areas so its hard to get jazzed about that.

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Definitely. Seems the energy is there for a wave, just a matter of timing. The EC has the primary LP much further south, then slowing move it NE, then retros to Hudson Bay. Either scenario will bring snow to WNY Christmas Eve night to the next several days. EC would bring big lake snows with prolonged SW flow.
Yeah not happening, sorry next,

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

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Christmas event does have the hallmarks of a big LES storm east of the lakes. Only hope for the rest of us (beyond a spray) is that wave; which, as Delta said, is a very tentative situation. I’m sure all the mets around here are going to get all excited and promise a white Christmas, entirely forgetting that Roc does terrible with these set-ups. 

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