• Member Statistics

    16,026
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    Bobby Orr
    Newest Member
    Bobby Orr
    Joined

Recommended Posts

I still can’t get over the night and day response people are having to this virus.  I went to a little social at a beer garden that was advertised as likely a few friends hanging out (through a church I occasionally attend) and I was the only one wearing a mask, I wouldn’t say they were social distancing very well, and there were about 30-40 people gathering next to and around four picnic tables or so.  At least it was outside, but you could tell things were pretty cavalier.  The cops almost broke it up (I wouldn’t have minded if they did, I wasn’t expecting quite this result).  On the other hand there are people who only will ever hang out with or talk in person to family, even socially distanced outdoor options with masks are worrisome to them.  I wish we could tow a sensible middle ground but this virus has only further divided us :thumbsdown:

  • Like 1
  • Weenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, wisconsinwx said:

I still can’t get over the night and day response people are having to this virus.  I went to a little social at a beer garden that was advertised as likely a few friends hanging out (through a church I occasionally attend) and I was the only one wearing a mask, I wouldn’t say they were social distancing very well, and there were about 30-40 people gathering next to and around four picnic tables or so.  At least it was outside, but you could tell things were pretty cavalier.  The cops almost broke it up (I wouldn’t have minded if they did, I wasn’t expecting quite this result).  On the other hand there are people who only will ever hang out with or talk in person to family, even socially distanced outdoor options with masks are worrisome to them.  I wish we could tow a sensible middle ground but this virus has only further divided us :thumbsdown:

I too love the sweet middle ground between socially responsible behavior and sociopathy 

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There has been too much wandering away from virus talk into larger economic debates.  

I will close the thread if it doesn't stay more focused on the virus and its direct impacts.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Florida with an expected dip in positive cases due to testing closures for the hurricane.  Deaths still staying high.  Interesting impact on total statistics since many of the people with minor symptoms who can't get tested won't even test positive by the time the sites open back up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The positive rate is more telling than the number testing positive.  It won't matter if you test a thousand, or 30 thousand.  Positivity rate is King

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Hoosier said:

There has been too much wandering away from virus talk into larger economic debates.  

I will close the thread if it doesn't stay more focused on the virus and its direct impacts.  

I do hope people behave in here...because this is the last surviving thread on the entire site!

  • Weenie 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They've made masks mandatory in all indoor settings including apartments and condominiums (public areas). Gyms and fitness centers finally opened up after being closed for nearly 5 months. I believe they're contemplating on keeping that US-Canada border closed until December. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dta1984 said:

Lol always get a good laugh seeing people alone in their car with a mask on

20200805_111357.jpg

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt on that.  Maybe they don't have hand sanitizer on them or something and don't want to touch the mask.  But otherwise it is a bit over the top.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some schools around here are going to be starting off with online learning or even doing the whole semester online, while others are starting off with in person learning or the hybrid model.  This will create a live experiment of sorts, although kids have friends and get together with kids who live in other towns which will still result in a lot of mixing.  

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I'm not sure about the hybrid model of kids going to school in person for 2 or 3 days a week and staying at home for the other 2 or 3 days.  There is still about 6-8 hours of possible exposure on the days they are there in person. 

Holding classes outdoors seems like a decent idea just from a virus standpoint, though I imagine it would be easier for kids to become distracted outdoors and you could only do that for so long in many parts of the country.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some people just forget that they have it on, after returning to their car from the grocery store or wherever.  That's happened to me a couple of times where I didn't realize I still had it on after returning to the car.  It just goes to show you that, if you wear something as part of a routine, your body adjusts to it to the point that sometimes you don't even notice that you're wearing it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Some schools around here are going to be starting off with online learning or even doing the whole semester online, while others are starting off with in person learning or the hybrid model.  This will create a live experiment of sorts, although kids have friends and get together with kids who live in other towns which will still result in a lot of mixing.  

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I'm not sure about the hybrid model of kids going to school in person for 2 or 3 days a week and staying at home for the other 2 or 3 days.  There is still about 6-8 hours of possible exposure on the days they are there in person. 

Holding classes outdoors seems like a decent idea just from a virus standpoint, though I imagine it would be easier for kids to become distracted outdoors and you could only do that for so long in many parts of the country.

Pediatricians are recommending that kids go back to school - https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/29/884638999/u-s-pediatricians-call-for-in-person-school-this-fall

If the risk was great I doubt they would make that recommendation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The better half is second grade school teacher. She's looking forward to going back. She understands that there is some risk of the staff contracting the virus. Less chance of the children becoming seriously ill.  The hope is the measures put in place; distancing,masks, temp checks, open air classes when possible minimize those risks. She believes remote learning for elementary school and special ed levels is something that does not work. Her time in the spring spent via remote learning and class prep and teacher/parent/student communication even with maximum effort has left students a half year behind compared to where they would be. She knows the children that are coming in this fall  will not be as prepared they normally would be. In the end, she feels the children's need to learn in as normal a classroom setting outweighs the risks that surely exist. Personal note. I commend her courage, and am proud of her.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Baum said:

The better half is second grade school teacher. She's looking forward to going back. She understands that there is some risk of the staff contracting the virus. Less chance of the children becoming seriously ill.  The hope is the measures put in place; distancing,masks, temp checks, open air classes when possible minimize those risks. She believes remote learning for elementary school and special ed levels is something that does not work. Her time in the spring spent via remote learning and class prep and teacher/parent/student communication even with maximum effort has left students a half year behind compared to where they would be. She knows the children that are coming in this fall  will not be as prepared they normally would be. In the end, she feels the children's need to learn in as normal a classroom setting outweighs the risks that surely exist. Personal note. I commend her courage, and am proud of her.

Fauci is on the side of careful in person learning too, dependent on magnitude of the spread.  I would say I agree with his assessment, and hopefully this opens other’s minds if they are averse to any in-person learning.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/dr-fauci-lends-support-for-reopening-schools-in-person-learning/amp/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Children are basically vectors for disease propagation, i.e. they don't suffer much from the disease itself but they are efficient spreaders of disease.  Opening up schools will increase the velocity of infections, there will be outbreaks, and there will be some teachers that die during these outbreaks.  The question is whether society is okay with an increase in the velocity of infections in order to have the benefits of in-person learning.  Frankly, I think if we see outbreaks, society might tolerate that for a couple of months, but eventually they'll decide its untenable and many schools will fallback to virtual learning.  I think we keep trying to force "normalcy" when normalcy simply isn't possible right now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We really need widespread, effective rapid result testing.  I don't have a lot of confidence in schools being able to catch outbreaks in time before they turn into dozens or hundreds of cases.  I definitely think we will have instances of that.  Yes, kids are statistically lower risk of serious illness, but then it spills out where it can affect more vulnerable people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, madwx said:

looks like there is a linked article that has a more recent update

 

Inkedadditional article_LI.jpg

Anytime an organization makes a statement that has a positive position on this, we get a quick retraction. I can't help but guess we have someone pulling the strings on this behind the scenes.

  • Like 2
  • Weenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Inverted_Trough said:

Children are basically vectors for disease propagation, i.e. they don't suffer much from the disease itself but they are efficient spreaders of disease.  Opening up schools will increase the velocity of infections, there will be outbreaks, and there will be some teachers that die during these outbreaks.  The question is whether society is okay with an increase in the velocity of infections in order to have the benefits of in-person learning.  Frankly, I think if we see outbreaks, society might tolerate that for a couple of months, but eventually they'll decide its untenable and many schools will fallback to virtual learning.  I think we keep trying to force "normalcy" when normalcy simply isn't possible right now.

Kids typically aren't obese or have preexisting conditions. My son being an exception... he has type 1 diabetes and is insulin dependent. Even so, we have had numerous parents document their experiences and so far every child has been asymptomatic. 

  • Like 1
  • Weenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Kids typically aren't obese or have preexisting conditions. My son being an exception... he has type 1 diabetes and is insulin dependent. Even so, we have had numerous parents document their experiences and so far every child has been asymptomatic. 

But even so...if it turns out that children can spread it...even if it harms them less, are we okay with them contributing to increased transmission of the virus? And in particular...the teachers being susceptible to it? To me that's the bigger problem...but the frustrating part is the evidence is not clear as of yet. Prior to last month, it wasn't looking like they thought kids spread it. But now, over the last few weeks, you have two rather discouraging studies come out from S. Korea (saying that kids 10+ can spread it just like adults), and another talking about kids 5 and under having a higher viral load. And then you have the two summer camp incidents.

Now you mentioned suspicion about the reason for the pediatrician walk-back...I'm wondering if it's because of the research and incidents that I just mentioned!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Inverted_Trough said:

Children are basically vectors for disease propagation, i.e. they don't suffer much from the disease itself but they are efficient spreaders of disease.  Opening up schools will increase the velocity of infections, there will be outbreaks, and there will be some teachers that die during these outbreaks.  The question is whether society is okay with an increase in the velocity of infections in order to have the benefits of in-person learning.  Frankly, I think if we see outbreaks, society might tolerate that for a couple of months, but eventually they'll decide its untenable and many schools will fallback to virtual learning.  I think we keep trying to force "normalcy" when normalcy simply isn't possible right now.

The AAP guidance is based on what pediatricians and infectious disease specialists know about COVID-19 and kids. Evidence so far suggests that children and adolescents are less likely to have symptoms or severe disease from infection. They also appear less likely to become infected or spread the virus.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Weenie 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, NEOH said:

The AAP guidance is based on what pediatricians and infectious disease specialists know about COVID-19 and kids. Evidence so far suggests that children and adolescents are less likely to have symptoms or severe disease from infection. They also appear less likely to become infected or spread the virus.

Just saw Ohio is mandating masks for k-12 kids.  I believe that's a bit extreme, and could pose other risks of illness with masking other bacteria a kid normally has around their mouth and nose.  

  • Like 2
  • Weenie 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Maestrobjwa said:

But even so...if it turns out that children can spread it...even if it harms them less, are we okay with them contributing to increased transmission of the virus? And in particular...the teachers being susceptible to it? To me that's the bigger problem...but the frustrating part is the evidence is not clear as of yet. Prior to last month, it wasn't looking like they thought kids spread it. But now, over the last few weeks, you have two rather discouraging studies come out from S. Korea (saying that kids 10+ can spread it just like adults), and another talking about kids 5 and under having a higher viral load. And then you have the two summer camp incidents.

Now you mentioned suspicion about the reason for the pediatrician walk-back...I'm wondering if it's because of the research and incidents that I just mentioned!

Yeah I'm guessing those 2 studies are the reason for the change in position.

In current hotspot areas where resources are already strained, it is pretty much a no brainer that you can't send the kids into school.  Question is how to handle it in areas with less virus and there are no easy answers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, NEOH said:

 They also appear less likely to become infected or spread the virus.

There was recently a large study (65000+ people) from South Korea that basically concluded kids that at age 10 and over are just as efficient at spreading the virus.  It's still an open question whether kids under the age of 10 are efficient spreaders.

I think the outbreak at the YMCA camp in Georgia shows how easily kids can spread this thing.  You can also look at Israel...they had the virus almost eradicated, until they opened schools.  They had so many outbreaks that they had to close all their schools again.

Even today, you had several positive cases at some school in Mississippi.  I just have a feeling that, a couple months from now, we're going to look back and think to ourselves "What the heck were we thinking?"  Hope I'm wrong!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.