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Winter 2019-2020 Discussion


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52 minutes ago, WinterWolf said:

Ya well last year was a big let down for those calling for a big snow year, so I can understand you being hesitant.  Stay off the AN Donkey this year..at least for a while, and see if any bigger  signs show up over the next 5 weeks. 

I don’t know, some had a big snow year :whistle:

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15 minutes ago, weathafella said:

How did we epic out in 2010-11 with that look?

NPAC SSTs are not a good indicator IMO. I'll say this until I am blue in the face, but they can change quickly and are a product of the H5 pattern, not the other way around. Our biggest driver in terms of SSTs and the pattern are down in the tropical areas. This is where all the warm water is. These waters are what help to drive the MJO which then has a bigger impact to the Rossby wave look and the H5 pattern. All those years that had a prolonged surface warm pool in the NPAC featured an overall MJO standing wave look west of the dateline. Think 2013-2015ish.

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7 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

Ah ha, makes sense Scoots. By month end we should see a change in the GOAK then.

Well the EPS now has a +PNA look in the 11-15 day so it might not be much change. I guess my overall point is that do not concern yourself so much with NPAC SSTs in October. In 2011, we had that massive trough over that region for months, starting Sept-Oct. I think when you have big anomalies either way in the NPAC, it can help feedback a bit too. But IMO, it is not a leading driver of the hemispheric pattern.

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9 hours ago, WinterWolf said:

Ya well last year was a big let down for those calling for a big snow year, so I can understand you being hesitant.  Stay off the AN Donkey this year..at least for a while, and see if any bigger  signs show up over the next 5 weeks. 

Well, I’m not factoring last year though into my early tempered expectations for this year. No PTSD here. 

This is just my weenie observation but it seems lately patterns lock in longer and are more extreme. By that I mean the wet dewy summer of 2018 which continued wet into the winter. 2019 has been dry especially Aug and Sept. These are just quick examples but if the AK vortex is showing up now, I’m hesitant to think it will be easy to move come Nov/Dec. It may just be brief troughing in that region with the usual yoyo back and forth so this is all for nothing. I dunno, just discussing and trying to learn more. 

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6 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

Well the EPS now has a +PNA look in the 11-15 day so it might not be much change. I guess my overall point is that do not concern yourself so much with NPAC SSTs in October. In 2011, we had that massive trough over that region for months, starting Sept-Oct. I think when you have big anomalies either way in the NPAC, it can help feedback a bit too. But IMO, it is not a leading driver of the hemispheric pattern.

Yea I saw eps and even the gefs backed off the AK vortex idea too. I guess I meant if troughing persisted there next 2/3 weeks, we would have a different SST look. 

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We did well in 2010-2011 because had an obscene -NAO....and a -PNA is not some sort of death knell for New England. So many people get wrapped up in that. I feel like I say until I'm blue in the face, but a -PNA/-NAO combo is probably our best snow pattern. We literally went almost the entire 1960s with that setup. 2010-2011 was also that setup with the NAO on 'roids a bit more than normal.

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2 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

We did well in 2010-2011 because had an obscene -NAO....and a -PNA is not some sort of death knell for New England. So many people get wrapped up in that. I feel like I say until I'm blue in the face, but a -PNA/-NAO combo is probably our best snow pattern. We literally went almost the entire 1960s with that setup. 2010-2011 was also that setup with the NAO on 'roids a bit more than normal.

Pickles fainted

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9 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

We did well in 2010-2011 because had an obscene -NAO....and a -PNA is not some sort of death knell for New England. So many people get wrapped up in that. I feel like I say until I'm blue in the face, but a -PNA/-NAO combo is probably our best snow pattern. We literally went almost the entire 1960s with that setup. 2010-2011 was also that setup with the NAO on 'roids a bit more than normal.

But the NAO has been non existent in winter except for Mar/Apr 17. Does it finally make a mid winter comeback this season?

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15 minutes ago, RUNNAWAYICEBERG said:

But the NAO has been non existent in winter except for Mar/Apr 17. Does it finally make a mid winter comeback this season?

I think you mean March 2018....but yeah....it's been pretty rare recently. These things tend to swing back though....we couldn't buy a -NAO for a few years in the late 1990s as well. We don't really need it super negative...even neutral is pretty decent.

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1 hour ago, ORH_wxman said:

I think you mean March 2018....but yeah....it's been pretty rare recently. These things tend to swing back though....we couldn't buy a -NAO for a few years in the late 1990s as well. We don't really need it super negative...even neutral is pretty decent.

Yes 18. It’s a fine line. I prefer -pna -nao since +pna systems can get away from me and crush east zones more so, obviously ridge placement is key. But when we have a -pna man can it get ugly without some semblance of canadian intrusion overhead.

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What a storm in North Dakota. Seems this is a pretty rare event. 

 

 

 

Stronger winds and a secondary batch of snow is expected on Friday
into at least early Saturday. This combination is expected to be
crippling, especially for that Cooperstown to Devils Lake to
Langdon corridor. For that reason, a blizzard warning was issued
for this time frame. Impacts are hard to imagine, as these type
of snow amounts and winds are incredibly rare. Have mentioned 1 to
3 feet of snow being possible in the blizzard warning area, with
large, impassable drifts expected as well. This will not be an
event where a uniform amount of snow is deposited, and is easily
measured. Just like any blizzard, there may be little snow in open
areas, and huge drifts nearby. Impacts should be a little less in
the Red River Valley, and even lower moving east of the Red River
Valley into Minnesota. Since the area east of the Red River
Valley may not see snow until Friday morning, left the watch in
effect for now.

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53 minutes ago, BrianW said:

What a storm in North Dakota. Seems this is a pretty rare event. 

 

 

What a drop off running down the middle of the state. It’s even too flat out there for weenies to have anything to jump off. I guess they’re stuck with toasters in the bathtub. 

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6 hours ago, Snow88 said:

Major blocking

But why?  Usually with that look it’s hard to get nao but we got it and got it good....

i hope nao shows up this year and failing that EPO continues its trend of recent years and we get enough transient blocking to give us good snows.   As mentioned yesterday-gun to head I think normal climo both in temperatures and snow this winter.

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8 minutes ago, weathafella said:

But why?  Usually with that look it’s hard to get nao but we got it and got it good....

i hope nao shows up this year and failing that EPO continues its trend of recent years and we get enough transient blocking to give us good snows.   As mentioned yesterday-gun to head I think normal climo both in temperatures and snow this winter.

I had 60 inches of snow by Feb 1st that winter. What a good 1st half of winter it was. The 2nd half was bad because the bloxming went away and la nina took over. 

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