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Baroclinic Zone

July Doldrums - Summer in full effect Pattern and Model Discussion

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50 minutes ago, weathafella said:

Yeah-routine maintenance on this old body.  3 more appointments next week.  Up to 89 here and rising.  Late push at Logan coming but probably short of 90.

Temp or age? :D

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Ok here we go-Logan on the rise as the sea breeze drops to 5 mph.   79 now on the way up especially when the land breeze rolls in.

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12 minutes ago, weathafella said:

I bet they bounce to 85-88 before dark based on where I’m at.  Decidedly hotter vs 2 hours ago.

i can see the sea breeze retreating nne on radar

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2 minutes ago, Baroclinic Zone said:

This works, thanks!! Just wanting to get a look at that sea breeze temp gradient. Damn!

I'm currently hiding away from the heat of Oklahoma (and New Hampshire) up in Michigan for a little while 

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6 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Thanks for bringing OK to NE you suck although  the water in the lake at 0730 was great. Living in the pool now with tunes cranking. Cracking one soon. Long live summer. 

The last two days have been great for the pool

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Yeah no 90 for Logan today...

I thought it possible yesterday when I posted about the late wind shift, but... we are getting south coastal contamination/marine from that source that I wasn't anticipating. The best Logan is likely to muster is whatever is lurking out around Brockton...  

Norwood is 90 though by finger nails ...

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I've been monitoring specifically the 850 mb temperature layout over eastern N/A over the last several cycles, and curiously...  as the 500 mb heights are ballooning into the ginormous sprawling postive anomaly, the 850s have been cooling by minute increments... At this point, about 19 C ...which is very warm for 40 N of course, is about all that's being contained in that mammoth ridge expression. There is a smattering right at 20 dappled on the map, but...  days ago, this was supposed to be four days of 23 to 25 and the contouring had it... 

This slowly transforming into a gutted ridge - weird.   The NAM actually tries to E door the coast on Wednesday when the ridge reaches it's greatest suppressive might... Seems to challenge fluid mechanics thinking some there...

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2 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Yea nothing nearby is close to that average, bogus

I believe the BTV readings.  Maybe there's been a land use change or what not but the majority of it is the overnight lows.  And that's supported by what's been looked at as a nocturnal low level jet in southerly flow situations.  Last night while everyone else went calm, BTV actually increased in southerly wind through the night.  As the surface inversion develops elsewhere, the southerly flow gets enhanced between the Adirondacks and Spine of the Greens.  So you almost get into a WAA situation overnight fighting any nighttime cooling.  And it's really only on the VT side of the lake.  Would be cool to model, a narrow ribbon of southerly winds moving through all night while it's calm just outside that river of moving air.

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Congrats picnic tables.

Tied hottest temperature ever recorded on Mount Mansfield at 84F (62 years of records).  

Yesterday gets bumped to #3 at 83F.  

Thats an obscene air mass for 875mb.

The alpine vegetation crying for its mama.  Similar to Arctic vegetation.

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2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Congrats picnic tables.

Tied hottest temperature ever recorded on Mount Mansfield at 84F (62 years of records).  

Yesterday gets bumped to #3 at 83F.  

Thats an obscene air mass for 875mb.

Basically 29C.  

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

I believe the BTV readings.  Maybe there's been a land use change or what not but the majority of it is the overnight lows.  And that's supported by what's been looked at as a nocturnal low level jet in southerly flow situations.  Last night while everyone else went calm, BTV actually increased in southerly wind through the night.  As the surface inversion develops elsewhere, the southerly flow gets enhanced between the Adirondacks and Spine of the Greens.  So you almost get into a WAA situation overnight fighting any nighttime cooling.  And it's really only on the VT side of the lake.  Would be cool to model, a narrow ribbon of southerly winds moving through all night while it's calm just outside that river of moving air.

Point being with a siting change you cant compare it to old records.  BTV ran warm all winter per your posts now its ok?

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8 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

I just happen to look at Quebec City   90/73 at 6pm.   Don't know how unusual it is to have a heat index this high but doubt there is much AC up there.  

I would venture a guess that is highly anomalous up there.

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15 minutes ago, wxeyeNH said:

I just happen to look at Quebec City   90/73 at 6pm.   Don't know how unusual it is to have a heat index this high but doubt there is much AC up there.  

Plenty of ac.   I was there last July and it was needed.   If I’m paying $200/night or more there had better be ac!

indoor spaces used ac in most of town.

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23 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Point being with a siting change you cant compare it to old records.  BTV ran warm all winter per your posts now its ok?

Other sites were almost as hot and probably don’t have the open fields for good mixing like the ASOS has.

https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=A3149&time=GMT

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1 hour ago, Ginx snewx said:

Point being with a siting change you cant compare it to old records.  BTV ran warm all winter per your posts now its ok?

You seem to think I have an agenda or something.  BTV has been warm for a long time in south flow situations, but the observation isn't incorrect.  It just torches on southerly flow.  It does in the winter and summer.  

There were a bunch of lows near 80F in the area there last night.  Ferrisburgh with 79F and Williston AOT was 77F and that's at 800ft a few miles east, which is even more impressive to me as that's a cool spot locally. 

It was a very hot night and day.  Hard to doubt it when the mountain top in the same county is putting up all-time records too.  Like Dendrite said, Mansfield crushed its all time daily mean temp by 2.5F yesterday (probably destroyed that today too)... why can't BTV be high-end hot too?

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1 hour ago, dendrite said:

Other sites were almost as hot and probably don’t have the open fields for good mixing like the ASOS has.

https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base_dyn.cgi?stn=A3149&time=GMT

Yeah that's a low of 80F and a high of 98F in Burlington at that station.

Its legit, just a climo area that torches with south winds due to absolutely no radiational effects, wind increasing at night, etc.

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2 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah that's a low of 80F and a high of 98F in Burlington.

Its legit, just a climo area that torches with south winds due to absolutely no radiational effects, wind increasing at night, etc.

Also the WFO is literally a few hundred feet from the ASOS. If it was busted the ET would have fixed it months ago. 

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1 hour ago, CT Rain said:

Also the WFO is literally a few hundred feet from the ASOS. If it was busted the ET would have fixed it months ago. 

Nice ASOS siting in between 2 runways 

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

You seem to think I have an agenda or something.  BTV has been warm for a long time in south flow situations, but the observation isn't incorrect.  It just torches on southerly flow.  It does in the winter and summer.  

There were a bunch of lows near 80F in the area there last night.  Ferrisburgh with 79F and Williston AOT was 77F and that's at 800ft a few miles east, which is even more impressive to me as that's a cool spot locally. 

It was a very hot night and day.  Hard to doubt it when the mountain top in the same county is putting up all-time records too.  Like Dendrite said, Mansfield crushed its all time daily mean temp by 2.5F yesterday (probably destroyed that today too)... why can't BTV be high-end hot too?

Wait you pointed it out many times this winter how warm it was compared to nearby sites. You actually said, I dont know whats wrong with that site. 

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15 minutes ago, Ginx snewx said:

Wait you pointed it out many times this winter how warm it was compared to nearby sites. You actually said, I dont know whats wrong with that site. 

Compared to MVL/MPV, certainly.  And the more you look into it the more it's just a climate oddity but it is real.  

But I've never seen it be out of whack with the similar open Champlain Valley sites.  It's not like everyone is 73F while they are 80F.

Like Dendrite posted, the nearby sites jive on the mesonet maps.  The more neighborhood type sites are upper 70s but anything open (like Field or lake) is still in the low 80s due to mixing.  Look at the sites on or near the lake still as high as 84F from the mixing.

IMG_0035.thumb.PNG.e6da3a8bc3b3315a0df10ca01755a45a.PNG

All you can say is Glad We Don't Live There... but the southerly flow torches are real.

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8 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Compared to MVL/MPV, certainly.  And the more you look into it the more it's just a climate oddity but it is real.  

But I've never seen it be out of whack with the similar open Champlain Valley sites.  It's not like everyone is 73F while they are 80F.

Like Dendrite posted, the nearby sites jive on the mesonet maps.  The more neighborhood type sites are upper 70s but anything open (like Field or lake) is still in the low 80s due to mixing.  Look at the sites on or near the lake still as high as 84F from the mixing.

IMG_0035.thumb.PNG.e6da3a8bc3b3315a0df10ca01755a45a.PNG

All you can say is Glad We Don't Live There... but the southerly flow torches are real.

Dont doubt it but when the world sees BTV broke 134 year old records there should be an asterisk 

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I remember we discussed a shift in BTV's anomalies a few years back. I'd have to go back and see exactly when it was but there was almost a step change and I think it showed up more in the min temps and not as much in the max temps (I.e. The airport wasn't radiating as much as it used to)...this can sometimes happen if they move the Asos or if there is any type of land use change on the airport or near it. I believe this happened in Seattle a few years back when a huge step change in temps occurred after they constructed a 3rd runway at the airport there. 

It could be coincidence too at BTV...but it always looks funny when literally every other first order station is putting up '81-'10 reference anomalies that are like 2F colder than BTV. 

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