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March 13 - 15 Major Winter Storm Potential


NEG NAO

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1 hour ago, Paragon said:

Well looking at all the pictures of the 10 foot drifts from March 1888 it was mismeasured at 21" other nearby areas like Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island reported between 26"-38" and the well known 44" at New Haven.  So it should be that but instead it's March 1896 at 31" which was the snowiest month of all time for NYC until the recent bout of big storms.

Looking for something more recent- February and March 1967 both had 30" of snow at Upton, NY on Long Island as well as the latest reading of 0 or below right around March 20th.

 

Measuring issues in Manhattan...even in 1888! Always found that hilarious.

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9 minutes ago, PB GFI said:

 

Chris , check out day 7 now . I posted the day 10 Euro snow map away .

Definitely a  keep sake .

 

I like 2 inches of liquid here / I think this will be a great March storm 

 

Paul, the snowfall rates on Tuesday would be amazing if we get a 6 hr panel like this to verify. I think 1.6 of liquid is the highest that the Euro has gone in a 6 hr period when it was snow.

 

ecmwf_slp_precip_nyc_12.thumb.png.014379d27dc2c8154a7d559aeaa17090.png

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Paragon said:

Personally I think that by tonight's 0z runs whatever is going to happen with Tuesday's storm will be all set, and we should start discussing the next two ;-) I already see next Saturday's storms on the major media outlet's forecasts lol.

 

There was good sampling yesterday for 0z 

it's why you saw the QPF spike and track come into focus .

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Just now, ILoveWinter said:

Measuring issues in Manhattan...even in 1888! Always found that hilarious.

Yes but it was a bit more understandable back then, the city was a wreck and over 400 people died in that storm.  But when you look at the pictures, it looks like the Swiss Alps lol.

On another note, Unc was right in comparing this to the 1959-60 winter.  With a possible upcoming El Nino for next winter, the chances for next winter being like 1960-61......

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3 minutes ago, bluewave said:

Paul, the snowfall rates on Tuesday would be amazing if we get a 6 hr panel like this to verify. I think 1.6 of liquid is the highest that the Euro has gone in a 6 hr period when it was snow.

 

ecmwf_slp_precip_nyc_12.thumb.png.014379d27dc2c8154a7d559aeaa17090.png

 

 

 

Obscene, but beautiful.  2.4 totals for you and I at 0z.

The 0z line never gets N of Toms River .

Last nights GEM/UKIE/EURO runs were just epic.

 

Now we need to hold .

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1 minute ago, PB GFI said:

There was good sampling yesterday for 0z 

it's why you saw the QPF spike and track come into focus .

Yes and I think it was why the models started converging.  Good forecasting by you to see this as the best period of the year.

We have some chances at getting back to back 40" seasons in two of our mildest winters ever.

 

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6 minutes ago, PB GFI said:

The entire coast including the city will go to a Blizzard Warning .

I will never forecast 30 inches even if I saw it .

Not impossible , just aggressive.

In terms of coverage its greater for this board. I think there are heavier snows back into the Appalachians and no sharp cut off here .

Barring a total collapse at 12z, we will see isolated jackpots of 30 inches or greater. Back in the blizzard of '96 I received 30 inches, while Elizabeth N.J. jackpot with 36!

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1 minute ago, NutleyBlizzard said:

Barring a total collapse at 12z, we will see isolated jackpots of 30 inches or greater. Back in the blizzard of '96 I received 30 inches, while Elizabeth N.J. jackpot with 36!

 

Trust me , I hope that happens .

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19 minutes ago, PB GFI said:

 

Obscene, but beautiful.  2.4 totals for you and I at 0z.

The 0z line never gets N of Toms River .

Last nights GEM/UKIE/EURO runs were just epic.

 

Now we need to hold .

We can get some wild snowfall rates if the phase goes off just right like it did in February 2013. It would be great if we could see the February 2013 50dbz snowfall rates closer to our area instead of to our NE.

58c538e483022_KOKXBR02_09.20130218Z(Custom).png.1e3f3a411a6ef4d0c7f90457dd645d7c.png

 

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19 minutes ago, PB GFI said:

There was good sampling yesterday for 0z 

it's why you saw the QPF spike and track come into focus .

Yep, both the extra data generated from the NHC dropsonde runs and the PacNW key system finally being over land and sampled much better.  Much more accurate and data-rich initial conditions make for better model runs. 

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Just now, tim said:

PB,Bluewave..thoughts on rain/snow line?...reading/watching mixed opinions.

 

The 0z Euro halts the 0 line at Toms River then collapses back South.

I think today we will get a better handle on the midlevels and poss areas of convection.

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9 minutes ago, Morris said:

There are 3 NAMs. 12km and 3km were great for the city, while 4km has a half a foot only, in and out. GFS is similar to the 4km.

 

Just putting it out there.

The 4k is so super high resolution it really loses credibility outside of 24 hours watch it continue to show a better solution as we get closer

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7 minutes ago, Morris said:

There are 3 NAMs. 12km and 3km were great for the city, while 4km has a half a foot only, in and out. GFS is similar to the 4km.

 

Just putting it out there.

Yeah. I think it's important to pay some attention to the models with outlier solutions. I'd really like to have these models fold to the EURO, UKIE, and GEM today.

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18 minutes ago, Morris said:

There are 3 NAMs. 12km and 3km were great for the city, while 4km has a half a foot only, in and out. GFS is similar to the 4km.

 

Just putting it out there.

Wouldn't worry about 4K or 3k this far out, Nam/para Nam only...

 

gfs is about 75+ miles east of the 4K Nam, the precip depiction at the surface is just weak this far out

 

4k also, still gets nearly a foot to Albany and still snowing... GFS 75 miles north of NYC only sees 3-5" tops

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4 minutes ago, UlsterCountySnowZ said:

Wouldn't worry about 4K or 3k this far out, Nam/para Nam only...

 

gfs is about 75+ miles east of the 4K Nam, the precip depiction at the surface is just weak this far out

 

4k also, still gets nearly a foot to Albany and still snowing... GFS 75 miles north of NYC only sees 3-5" tops

Isn't the 3km NAM the PARA-NAM?

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2 minutes ago, UlsterCountySnowZ said:

Wouldn't worry about 4K or 3k this far out, Nam/para Nam only...

 

gfs is about 75+ miles east of the 4K Nam, the precip depiction at the surface is just weak this far out

The 12z suite especially will be important to see whether the GFS is completely worthless or is the first to sniff out what is really going on here.  The model may stink, but it was the first to figure out what was about to go wrong in Jan 2015.  And that worries me.

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The pattern still seems to be more similar to that of March 18-19, 1956 and January 26-27, 2015, mainly that the trough is comfortably farther west than in the 2015 case. Right now, I have greater confidence in the 0z ECMWF, 0z UKMET, and 0z EPS.
For purposes of reference, here’s a list of New York City’s 12” or greater snowstorms in March (1800-2016):

March 14-15, 1834: 12”-15”
March 16-17, 1843: 18” (nearly 2 feet in parts of the City)
March 16-17, 1867: 12”
March 20-22, 1868: More than 12”
March 12-14, 1888: 21.0” (parts of the City received nearly 30”)
March 15-16, 1896: 12.0” (also a 10.0” snowfall on March 2)
March 1-2, 1914: 14.5”
March 7-8, 1941: 18.1”
March 3-4, 1960: 14.5”
 

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10 minutes ago, Rtd208 said:

Those are some serious 1 hour rates if I am reading that correctly.

The 0z run was showing 3-5" per hr snowfall rates at the peak of the storm where the best banding sets up. It will be interesting to see what it looks like once we get to within its best 24 hr range.

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2 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

The pattern still seems to be more similar to that of March 18-19, 1956 and January 26-27, 2015, mainly that the trough is comfortably farther west than in the 2015 case. Right now, I have greater confidence in the 0z ECMWF, 0z UKMET, and 0z EPS.
For purposes of reference, here’s a list of New York City’s 12” or greater snowstorms in March (1800-2016):

March 14-15, 1834: 12”-15”
March 16-17, 1843: 18” (nearly 2 feet in parts of the City)
March 16-17, 1867: 12”
March 20-22, 1868: More than 12”
March 12-14, 1888: 21.0” (parts of the City received nearly 30”)
March 15-16, 1896: 12.0” (also a 10.0” snowfall on March 2)
March 1-2, 1914: 14.5”
March 7-8, 1941: 18.1”
March 3-4, 1960: 14.5”
 

Thanks, Don as always great info.  

 

close contenders 
3/20 - 3/21 1958: 11.8"
3/18 1956: 11.6"
3/13 1993: 10.6
3/21 - 3/22 1967: 9.8"

3/5 1981: 8.6"
3/1-3/2 2009: 8.3"

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