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Winter 2016-17 discussion


lookingnorth

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57 minutes ago, griteater said:

True, the correlation isn't as strong when looking solely at weak Ninas....however, the +NAO bias for Jan-Feb remains even in weak Nina years.  Here are the central Pacific, cool ENSO winters with NAO numbers.  2nd chart is for weak Nina only.

CP_NAO_s.gif

 

CP_NAO_s_Weak_Nina.gif

 

Wow! Look at the difference the strength makes. Every single weak Nina had at least one month of a -NAO average.

Would be interesting to see the same chart on EPO & AO.

Very helpful! Thanks

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3 hours ago, griteater said:

True, the correlation isn't as strong when looking solely at weak Ninas....however, the +NAO bias for Jan-Feb remains even in weak Nina years.  Here are the central Pacific, cool ENSO winters with NAO numbers.  2nd chart is for weak Nina only.

CP_NAO_s.gif

 

CP_NAO_s_Weak_Nina.gif

 

Look at the DEC/JAN of the weak Central Nina's since 1950...yikes

 

gfe9OAj.png

 

uYsZehs.png

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CFSv2 and UK both agree on setting up max cool anomaly east of 150W...FWIW.  We are on a tremendous +NAO streak for winter months over the past 5-6 years so regardless of where the coldest anomaly sets up it's hard to imagine a winter with a -NAO.  I think the SER is going to be real problematic with that atlantic...stating the obvious.

 

2cat_20161001_sst_months35_pacific_deter

Also, +PDO.

2cat_20161001_sst_months35_global_deter_

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7 minutes ago, packbacker said:

Since 1950 we have had 5 two year nino's and the following winter after we averaged 14" :snowing: .  

One year was only 6", but the other 4 were all big.

 

Screen Shot 2016-10-11 at 4.37.32 PM.png

I think we score this year.  Not sold on any wall to wall cold or even a solid cold winter in the means, but I think we'll get one or two rogue storms that are favorably timed for a change.

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1 minute ago, Cold Rain said:

I think we score this year.  Not sold on any wall to wall cold or even a solid cold winter in the means, but I think we'll get one or two rogue storms that are favorably timed for a change.

I think we are going to get sick of seeing storm after storm running up the apps with the big ole SER.  Where we are slighly BN, then storm passes to our west, we warm up, then we cool back down after it passes.  Just the kind of winter we like.

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3 hours ago, packbacker said:

I think we are going to get sick of seeing storm after storm running up the apps with the big ole SER.  Where we are slighly BN, then storm passes to our west, we warm up, then we cool back down after it passes.  Just the kind of winter we like.

I'm hoping for CAD to save the day. Should be plenty of cold air to our north (nina pattern), we just need to be able to tap it (with a strong high) for those storms that try to run to our west.

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4 hours ago, packbacker said:

I think we are going to get sick of seeing storm after storm running up the apps with the big ole SER.  Where we are slighly BN, then storm passes to our west, we warm up, then we cool back down after it passes.  Just the kind of winter we like.

I want to agree and you probably are right. But my gut feeling says after a long dry hot summer our pattern turns around or we could just continue the sucktastic winters we have been having lol.

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2 hours ago, SimeonNC said:

temp2.glob.DJF2017.1oct2016.gif&key=87d3

 

tprep.glob.DJF2017.1oct2016.gif&key=107d

 

wNifat1.gif&key=834382bf4ac1ce49d1a79e94ssta.glob.DJF2017.1oct2016.gif&key=f0c3f

 

The October update for JAMSTEC reverts back to a weak nina/neutral pattern along with a strong +PDO but is still bent on torching the entire Continental U.S with only slightly cooler anomalies for the East Coast. With this combined with the above average Siberian snow cover and the unusually weak PV, either the JAMSTEC is noticing something or it's totally out to lunch.

It is noticing winters after a 'Cane season like we've been through and may still be in .... Just sayin'

Now to lunch :wacko:

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13 minutes ago, pcbjr said:

It is noticing winters after a 'Cane season like we've been through and may still be in .... Just sayin'

Now to lunch :wacko:

Which seasons are you looking at?

Hurricane Cleo was brought up as analog to Matt last week  - 1964.  That winter RDU had 13" of snow.  

1995 was active cane season and that winter was banner cold/snowy.  

I am sure there are several clunkers too.  

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Nina, hurricanes, dry or wet pattern, I don't think it really matters. Winter is going to do what it's going to do here. We have seen in the past when the players on the field look great, but they still end up with a losing record. Last winter was a prime example. I remember most everyone hyping the pattern and indicies we had going into winter and saying we would probably have above average snowfall here. Didn't happen. Now, there are things that give us a better chance of having a big winter with snow/ice. However, that better chance doesn't guarantee results. And there are times when things looked bad overall for winter, but we end up getting one huge storm. The best thing is to expect another below average winter until we see otherwise. Maybe we'll get lucky and have a lot of snow this winter. But with the way it has been so wet in central and eastern NC, I bet this winter ends up bone dry here. Hopefully, if that is the case it ends up warmer, too, and not bitter cold.

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15 hours ago, packbacker said:

Which seasons are you looking at?

Hurricane Cleo was brought up as analog to Matt last week  - 1964.  That winter RDU had 13" of snow.  

1995 was active cane season and that winter was banner cold/snowy.  

I am sure there are several clunkers too.  

Oh I'll take any winter in the 60's.

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7 minutes ago, griteater said:

Barrow.gif

Hopefully that is about to end.

Grid forecast for Barrow:
This Afternoon
Cloudy, with a high near 38. East wind around 25 mph.
Tonight
Mostly cloudy, with a low around 30. East wind around 25 mph.
Friday
Areas of freezing fog after 11am. Cloudy, with a high near 33. East wind around 20 mph.
Friday Night
A 20 percent chance of snow showers after 11pm. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 28. Northeast wind 15 to 20 mph.
Saturday
A 20 percent chance of snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 31. Northeast wind around 15 mph.
Saturday Night
A 30 percent chance of snow. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 27.
Sunday
A 30 percent chance of snow. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 30.
Sunday Night
A chance of snow. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 25.
Monday
A chance of snow. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 29.
Monday Night
A slight chance of snow. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 25.
Tuesday
Mostly cloudy, with a high near 28.
Tuesday Night
Mostly cloudy, with a low around 26.
Wednesday
Mostly cloudy, with a high near 27.
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1 hour ago, NWNC2015 said:

Raysweather hot off the press....dry precip drought and near normal temp w/ less snow area wide. 

8" for me.

:(

He opens with "We had an impressively warm summer and early fall. The first frost has not even occurred for most of the Southern Appalachians, with the exception of deeper valleys on the nights of October 11th and 12th. This year's "leaf season" is the latest in my 25 years living in Boone."

http://www.averyweather.com/public/FearlessForecast.pdf

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7 hours ago, packbacker said:

Grit...it's early, but looks better then last winter?

Better than seeing it rage positive, but yeah it's early....need to get to late Oct into Nov to see if there are any strong anomalies.  

The one I like looking at is the chart showing the amount of heat flux into the cold strat vortex...

Heat_Flux.gif

 

Here's what it looked like in Oct-Nov 2009 prior to the big -AO/-NAO winter...

Heat_Flux_09.gif

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