Winter 2016/2017 because its never too early

[CoastalWx]

  God that was so frustrating here lol. Those two storms, 12/25/02 and 1/3-1/4/03.  The snowpack built up exponentially once you got past the 128/90 junction. Luckily we turned it around in a huge way early Feb that year. 

  It will be back. Eduggs will slowly lower the .45 he has pointed at his head from the last few years. 

[tamarack]

Just now, CoastalWx said:

  God that was so frustrating here lol. Those two storms, 12/25/02 and 1/3-1/4/03.  The snowpack built up exponentially once you got past the 128/90 junction. Luckily we turned it around in a huge way early Feb that year. 

  It will be back. Eduggs will slowly lower the .45 he has pointed at his head from the last few years. 

The Jan 4 storm (13.8") was my only warning-criteria snow of that winter - got 7.0" Nov 17-18 but it came over about 36 hr.  Did provide an extended period of snow cover. The 02-03 snow season was remarkable for cold - 12 days with minima -20 to -29, killing my Reliance peach - but snowfall was nearly 20" below my avg, 0.2" less than 2011-12.  The near-whiff on 12/26 was just the beginning of suppression city.

[powderfreak]

8 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

  God that was so frustrating here lol. Those two storms, 12/25/02 and 1/3-1/4/03.  The snowpack built up exponentially once you got past the 128/90 junction. Luckily we turned it around in a huge way early Feb that year. 

  It will be back. Eduggs will slowly lower the .45 he has pointed at his head from the last few years. 

lol its so funny how great memories for the interior include "that was so frustrating" from coastal areas and then when coastal areas mention great memories here in the interior we are like "god that was so frustrating." 

So funny the polarity between the different regions within our larger area when it comes to snowstorms. 

December 5-6, 2003 was probably the best most widespread storms I can think of.  20" BTV to BOS.

[uncle W]

4 hours ago, tamarack said:

Maybe you can untangle the numbers riddle for the 1947 storm.  My data from the Utah Climate Center for 12/25-29/47 is below, with more recent data downloaded from the CLIMOD2 site to its right.  Temps are identical form both, as is total precip and snowfall.  Just the timing changes:

12/25....33...19.......0........0........1".....CLIMOD.........0.........0...2"

12/26....31...25...2.36"...25.5"...msg....CLIMOD....0.26".....3.7"...4"

12/27....35...29...0.04".....0.3"...msg....CLIMOD....2.14"...22.1"...26"

12/28....33...26...0.03".....0.3"...msg....CLIMOD.........0.........0....25"

12/29....28...21.......0........0......msg....CLIMOD.....0.03"....0.3"...24"

Added note:  The UCC timing fits with my old Uncle Wethbee Wx Almanacs.  

The CLIMOD timing would perhaps fit for a 7A obs time, as the storm began in the wee hours of 12/26 and ended not quite 24 hr later.

old uncle wethbee almanacs used records from the battery...I think 1961 started records from Central Park...25.8" was measured in Battery Park and 26.4" in Central Park...now its back to 25.8"???...

[CoastalWx]

1 hour ago, tamarack said:

The Jan 4 storm (13.8") was my only warning-criteria snow of that winter - got 7.0" Nov 17-18 but it came over about 36 hr.  Did provide an extended period of snow cover. The 02-03 snow season was remarkable for cold - 12 days with minima -20 to -29, killing my Reliance peach - but snowfall was nearly 20" below my avg, 0.2" less than 2011-12.  The near-whiff on 12/26 was just the beginning of suppression city.

I didn't realize it was that paltry there, but thinking back..I can see why.  The Feb storms especially were more SNE specials. Just a bunch of over-achievers....at least compared to what models had 2-3 days out. It was very cold even down here. Jan 03 and I remember April 03 as sticking out for cold. Hell it reall did not warm up until June to be honest. That was a stretch of very cold Springs through 2007 or so. 

[CoastalWx]

1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

lol its so funny how great memories for the interior include "that was so frustrating" from coastal areas and then when coastal areas mention great memories here in the interior we are like "god that was so frustrating." 

So funny the polarity between the different regions within our larger area when it comes to snowstorms. 

December 5-6, 2003 was probably the best most widespread storms I can think of.  20" BTV to BOS.

I know....it's tough to have it both ways. You guys are definitely due for some snow at our expense. It's coming. 

[ORH_wxman]

3 minutes ago, CoastalWx said:

I know....it's tough to have it both ways. You guys are definitely due for some snow at our expense. It's coming. 

Some good ones that crushed both down near BOS and powderfreak's area:

 

1/20/78, 2/16/58, 2/23-28/69, 2/10/69, 2/4/95.

 

We can include storms like Feb '72, Dec '96, March 2001, Dec '66, Jan '87, Mar '59, Mar '93, Dec '69, Jan '66, Feb '83 (the first one before the KU storm) if we use interior SNE instead very close to BOS. I'm probably missing a bunch...but it's not too uncommon. Hell, throw in Feb 2014 too.

I think it's been a bit more uncommon recently, but I'm sure it will revert back.

[CoastalWx]

 

Some good ones that crushed both down near BOS and powderfreak's area:

 

1/20/78, 2/16/58, 2/23-28/69, 2/10/69, 2/4/95.

 

We can include storms like Feb '72, Dec '96, March 2001, Dec '66, Jan '87, Mar '59, Mar '93, Dec '69, Jan '66, Feb '83 (the first one before the KU storm) if we use interior SNE instead very close to BOS. I'm probably missing a bunch...but it's not too uncommon. Hell, throw in Feb 2014 too.

I think it's been a bit more uncommon recently, but I'm sure it will revert back.

I just mean in the grand scheme.  More often than not, it's at the expense of one vs the other for a decent snow event. Obviously not always as you pointed out, especially inland. 

[dryslot]

As far as Ice storms goes, Let some others have one

[ORH_wxman]

 

I just mean in the grand scheme.  More often than not, it's at the expense of one vs the other for a decent snow event. Obviously not always as you pointed out, especially inland. 

 

Oh yeah definitely...I just think recency bias has probably created the perception that it is more uncommon than it really is...esp when talking interior SNE vs N VT.

[CoastalWx]

 

 

Oh yeah definitely...I just think recency bias has probably created the perception that it is more uncommon than it really is...esp when talking interior SNE vs N VT.

 

Well in VT they think it doesn't snow anymore....    The time for me reminicing over old snow pics with the backdrop sound of wind driven rain while PF has web cam shots of Subarus buried in snow at Stowe resort, is approaching. And you know what, I can't complain one bit since Feb 2013.  What a run. 

 

  True story for those who don't know. I was talking to Will during the 12/29/12 snow event. He was driving back (or taking train?) from work and it drove through the CF as he went through the Pru tunnel. I was in Dorchester at the time getting catpaws. I wanted to jump out of my skin. That was the icing on the cake for an epic middle finger since late Fall 2011. So close, but yet so far for the RASN line. It was a classic longitudinal event where srn RI got more snow than coastal MA. I eventually got a few inches out of it...but I almost lost it. It's funny to think back to that time. 

[ORH_wxman]

 

 

Well in VT they think it doesn't snow anymore....    The time for me reminicing over old snow pics with the backdrop sound of wind driven rain while PF has web cam shots of Subarus buried in snow at Stowe resort, is approaching. And you know what, I can't complain one bit since Feb 2013.  What a run. 

 

  True story for those who don't know. I was talking to Will during the 12/29/12 snow event. He was driving back (or taking train?) from work and it drove through the CF as he went through the Pru tunnel. I was in Dorchester at the time getting catpaws. I wanted to jump out of my skin. That was the icing on the cake for an epic middle finger since late Fall 2011. So close, but yet so far for the RASN line. It was a classic longitudinal event where srn RI got more snow than coastal MA. I eventually got a few inches out of it...but I almost lost it. It's funny to think back to that time. 

 

Lol....you were absolutely irate...unhinged. You couldn't believe it was absolutely pouring snow in west Boston while you were getting a nice "nose" of WAA at 950mb and below preventing you from snowing. I think even at one point messenger in PYM flipped to heavy snow while you were still rotting under the middle finger of boundary layer warmth. I think you had a similar problem in the November 2012 event too...I think I remember Jerry having like 5" of snow from that while you were struggling to overcome catpaws.

 

 

[CoastalWx]

 

 

Lol....you were absolutely irate...unhinged. You couldn't believe it was absolutely pouring snow in west Boston while you were getting a nice "nose" of WAA at 950mb and below preventing you from snowing. I think even at one point messenger in PYM flipped to heavy snow while you were still rotting under the middle finger of boundary layer warmth. I think you had a similar problem in the November 2012 event too...I think I remember Jerry having like 5" of snow from that while you were struggling to overcome catpaws.

 

 

 

That was the other event. Of course my son was only a few weeks old at the end of December, so lack of sleep didn't help.  That December event...that was not cool.  I couldn't believe the urine stream of warmth right into Boston Harbor while everyone around flipped.

[powderfreak]

 

Some good ones that crushed both down near BOS and powderfreak's area:

 

1/20/78, 2/16/58, 2/23-28/69, 2/10/69, 2/4/95.

 

We can include storms like Feb '72, Dec '96, March 2001, Dec '66, Jan '87, Mar '59, Mar '93, Dec '69, Jan '66, Feb '83 (the first one before the KU storm) if we use interior SNE instead very close to BOS. I'm probably missing a bunch...but it's not too uncommon. Hell, throw in Feb 2014 too.

I think it's been a bit more uncommon recently, but I'm sure it will revert back.

Yeah I guess it depends on what crushed in both spots would mean... like February 2013 we got 12" compared to 24-36" down there.  I can't complain at all about those types of distributions as I think anytime you can get a foot of snow that's a win even if some other New England region is getting suffocated.   Same with the January 2011 storms, we got warning criteria in a couple of those while SNE had a couple feet. 

Those are the best events for all involved as even if one extreme corner of New England is getting crushed, the other is at least getting a warning event out of it. 

But the storms like December 2003 where both BTV and BOS got 20" are tough to come by in the larger storm sense.  I'm sure there are quite a few like 4-8" or 6-12" type SWFE or whatever that are fairly evenly distributed.  Its the big whoppers over the years that tend to be more polarizing. 

[powderfreak]

 

I just mean in the grand scheme.  More often than not, it's at the expense of one vs the other for a decent snow event. Obviously not always as you pointed out, especially inland. 

Yeah that's how I look at it too...then again its not like we should expect a 6 state jackpot lol.  But especially where you are on the coast vs. way up here in NW New England we probably are the most polarized when it comes to events.  A place like ORH and here have a lot more snowstorms in common than say here and the South Coast.

[powderfreak]

 

 

Oh yeah definitely...I just think recency bias has probably created the perception that it is more uncommon than it really is...esp when talking interior SNE vs N VT.

Yup, guess I should've just mult-quoted haha... but as I was just typing to Coastal, we do have a lot of snowstorms in common with western SNE (probably ORH westward) though much less in common with say the South Coast or BOS itself. 

Usually if western SNE is doing well we are right there with them.  If eastern SNE is doing real well its not a given that we are getting anything.  That's sort of how I look at it. 

[CT Valley Snowman]

Winter of 2016-17

"The Interior Strikes Back".

 Coming soon to weanies all across the interior Northeast.  

The trouble has been great and the pain so real but I can see the light on the horizon. There was once a day when the snowfall flourished and ski resorts were bustling and children were playing out in the snow on Christmas ,and every day gave the promise of more potential, but now that potential has been stolen. However today, we stand together in unity and say that this will not take place anymore. The dream will stay alive. We can once again watch deform bands and Cape Cod runners plaster us while the CP flips to pouring rain.  

Enough is enough.

Its time to "Make Interior Winters Great Again"

[CoastalWx]

 See, the hatred is palpable. 

[powderfreak]

 

 See, the hatred is palpable. 

Ha, I was much more furious as a whole after the 2013-14 winter.  January 2014 I think was when I lost it after like 6 rainstorms with brutal cold in-between while SNE had "Leon" overrunning events.  

That was the month where Tamarack and is almost pulled more inches of rain than snow.

Since that it's just been more staggeringly comical...2015 all-time record snows for the same area, and the even last winter the regional zone that's produced best since 2012 was closest to normal and even a little above normal in one of our warmest winters on record.

What a run since 2012, I mean really.  Last winter capped it off as you don't expect the coastal plain to have normal snowfall and 3-4 warning events in a top 5 warmest winter.  

Another fun stat is that BOS has had 8 warning events since BTV has had one even issued I think.

[ORH_wxman]

 

Yeah I guess it depends on what crushed in both spots would mean... like February 2013 we got 12" compared to 24-36" down there.  I can't complain at all about those types of distributions as I think anytime you can get a foot of snow that's a win even if some other New England region is getting suffocated.   Same with the January 2011 storms, we got warning criteria in a couple of those while SNE had a couple feet. 

Those are the best events for all involved as even if one extreme corner of New England is getting crushed, the other is at least getting a warning event out of it. 

But the storms like December 2003 where both BTV and BOS got 20" are tough to come by in the larger storm sense.  I'm sure there are quite a few like 4-8" or 6-12" type SWFE or whatever that are fairly evenly distributed.  Its the big whoppers over the years that tend to be more polarizing. 

I specifically left out storms that had big 30+ jackpots unless they both hit SNE and your area (like March 2001, Feb 1969 and March 1993). You'll notice I didn't put feb 2013 on there even though you scored a foot. 

 

A lot lot of the storms I mentioned were like 12-18" type events that hit both of us. 

[SnowGoose69]

 

Get your shovels, plows, blowers ready-we're heading for epicosity...

 

 

It seems to me that often times the SST anomaly pattern in the NATL in September has a tendency to hold into winter. I can think of just one case the last 7-8 years where it looked great and went bad, (may have been 2013) otherwise the last 4-5 years it's almost always had a +NAO look by September and held up.  Not so much the case for the pacific though where I've seen things flip before significantly from September to December.    

[tamarack]

 

Some good ones that crushed both down near BOS and powderfreak's area:

 

1/20/78, 2/16/58, 2/23-28/69, 2/10/69, 2/4/95.

 

We can include storms like Feb '72, Dec '96, March 2001, Dec '66, Jan '87, Mar '59, Mar '93, Dec '69, Jan '66, Feb '83 (the first one before the KU storm) if we use interior SNE instead very close to BOS. I'm probably missing a bunch...but it's not too uncommon. Hell, throw in Feb 2014 too.

I think it's been a bit more uncommon recently, but I'm sure it will revert back.

That late Dec storm is probably the freakiest snow-to-rain event on record for Maine (west of BGR) and eastern NH.  Locations there got 10-20" snow followed by 3-7" rain with temps jumping to around 50.  The Sandy River peaked at 29,100 cfs on 12/28 for it's 4th highest flow in 80 years record.  Farmington recorded 9.96" in that monster, about 2.5" more total precip than recorded anywhere else (but MWN), and the 24 hours ending at their (then) 7 AM obs time is the greatest on record.

Four days of freaky:

12/26....19...-17......T.......T.....21"

12/27....33.....6...3.97"...15.0"...30"

12/28....51...27...5.99.......0.......18"

12/29....35...21.......0.......0.......18"

[J.Spin]

 

Tallest snowpack for 12/25 here is 14" in 2008 - was 17" the day before but a (lower case) Grinch - upper 30s with -RA - knocked it down a bit.  Had about the same in NNJ on 12/25/66, the day after about 15" with thunder.  Tops at Farmington co-op is 44" in 1970.  That's probably 18" more than for any Christmas at Fort Kent; tops there is probably mid-20s in 1983 (data is elsewhere atm.)  It's also 18" higher than the co-op's #2, 26" in both 1972 and 1995.  In about 75 years of record (snow depth data is hit-or-miss 1941-65, absent before '41), they've had 20"+ on 12/25 only 6 times.

 

My data set only starts in ‘06-‘07, but perhaps not too coincidentally with both of us being in NNE, 2008 featured one of the deepest Christmas day snowpacks at our site as well with 13” on the ground.  An interesting note is that 2008 is actually second to Christmas 2007, which had 15” on the ground here.  I guess the theme for those seasons was La Niña, and they had not only nice starts but were good seasons all around.

[ORH_wxman]

39 minutes ago, tamarack said:

That late Dec storm is probably the freakiest snow-to-rain event on record for Maine (west of BGR) and eastern NH.  Locations there got 10-20" snow followed by 3-7" rain with temps jumping to around 50.  The Sandy River peaked at 29,100 cfs on 12/28 for it's 4th highest flow in 80 years record.  Farmington recorded 9.96" in that monster, about 2.5" more total precip than recorded anywhere else (but MWN), and the 24 hours ending at their (then) 7 AM obs time is the greatest on record.

Four days of freaky:

12/26....19...-17......T.......T.....21"

12/27....33.....6...3.97"...15.0"...30"

12/28....51...27...5.99.......0.......18"

12/29....35...21.......0.......0.......18"

 

That was a big stemwinder track...really hooked N and almost NNW into NH. Funny, ORH only maxed out around 34 IIRC. That's hard to do while a place like Farmington hits 50F. They had a lot of sleet and ice after getting 13-14" of snow on the front end.

 

That storm has to be on the biggest QPF bombs in New England as a whole that we've ever seen for a pretty significant winter storm. So many stations had over 3 inches of QPF.

[Typhoon Tip]

12 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

 

That was a big stemwinder track...really hooked N and almost NNW into NH. Funny, ORH only maxed out around 34 IIRC. That's hard to do while a place like Farmington hits 50F. They had a lot of sleet and ice after getting 13-14" of snow on the front end.

 

That storm has to be on the biggest QPF bombs in New England as a whole that we've ever seen for a pretty significant winter storm. So many stations had over 3 inches of QPF.

 

i think those whopper QP events are more likely to occur in late autumn in general.  

1992 leaps to mind - one of, if not at, my most favorite one of all time.   places like Brockton got 6" of rain, followed by 9" of snow.  least that's what Harv told me way back when.  I believe 'im though, because i was still an undergrad at UML and can tell you first hand we probably put up a 3.5er in the bucket before we flipped and got our 19" of snow - the first 10 of which was blue glory, then topped by wind whipped powder. 

my point is, there's still a lot of latent heat left in the ambient atmosphere (oceanically enhanced notwithstanding, too) within stone's throw inflow jet range of deep cyclones, so they can operate within similar Februarian mechanical strife, but with a huge HUGE pwat advantage.  

[ORH_wxman]

4 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

 

i think those whopper QP events are more likely to occur in late autumn in general.  

1992 leaps to mind - one of, if not at, my most favorite one of all time.   places like Brockton got 6" of rain, followed by 9" of snow.  least that's what Harv told me way back when.  I believe 'im though, because i was still an undergrad at UML and can tell you first hand we probably put up a 3.5er in the bucket before we flipped and got our 19" of snow - the first 10 of which was blue glory, then topped by wind whipped powder. 

my point is, there's still a lot of latent heat left in the ambient atmosphere (oceanically enhanced notwithstanding, too) within stone's throw inflow jet range of deep cyclones, so they can operate within similar Februarian mechanical strife, but with a huge HUGE pwat advantage.  

 

 

Yeah I agree...something about some of those December monsters. I think Dec 1945 had a pretty good one too. We can see similar type systems in March/April too. Though I think when they occur in December, they have a better SST profile to feed off of...March/April get more moisture it seems from seasonal diabatic effects down south where it's rapidly turning to summer there with 70F dewpoints.

 

I've always wondered why November never produced any storms like that given that you still have relative bath water hanging out to our south. It seems to be a barren month for a huge winter storm. Well, except maybe the November 1898 storm which dumped 12-20"+ in a pretty large area...but the date speaks for itself how common that has been. Maybe it's just too hard to get enough polar jet infused that far south that early in the season to create them...but still, I would have thought a better return rate than 1 in 100+ years.

 

 

[Typhoon Tip]

6 minutes ago, ORH_wxman said:

 

 

Yeah I agree...something about some of those December monsters. I think Dec 1945 had a pretty good one too. We can see similar type systems in March/April too. Though I think when they occur in December, they have a better SST profile to feed off of...March/April get more moisture it seems from seasonal diabatic effects down south where it's rapidly turning to summer there with 70F dewpoints.

 

I've always wondered why November never produced any storms like that given that you still have relative bath water hanging out to our south. It seems to be a barren month for a huge winter storm. Well, except maybe the November 1898 storm which dumped 12-20"+ in a pretty large area...but the date speaks for itself how common that has been. Maybe it's just too hard to get enough polar jet infused that far south that early in the season to create them...but still, I would have thought a better return rate than 1 in 100+ years.

 

 

 

funny you mention Novie - was just thinking about that month.    there was one tho - November 1950... that was an odd ball super-uber deep cut-off that bombed along in the outer Banks/VA Capes area, then foisted that sucker clear to almost Cleveland over top.  

didn't do much for snow - that i can recall reading...though not sure on the western side, but it was a monster, monster storm. wonder what the QP distribution was for that.  The Great App. Storm ? 

but yeah, as far a chapter writers, ...the story book of big events of lore has a general Novie dearth of stories.  wonder why that is -

[Typhoon Tip]

actually i found a Wiki entry for that pig...  not sure how accurate that assessment was, but it did mention both heavy rains and blizzard.  

did that really do all that wind in "New England highlands" tho ? 

[ORH_wxman]

2 minutes ago, Typhoon Tip said:

 

funny you mention Novie - was just thinking about that month.    there was one tho - November 1950... that was an odd ball super-uber deep cut-off that bombed along in the outer Banks/VA Capes area, then foisted that sucker clear to almost Cleveland over top.  

didn't do much for snow - that i can recall reading...though not sure on the western side, but it was a monster, monster storm. wonder what the QP distribution was for that.  The Great App. Storm ? 

but yeah, as far a chapter writers, ...the story book of big events of lore has a general Novie dearth of stories.  wonder why that is -

 

Yeah I thought about 1950 but it was so far west that I didn't include it...but you're right that it certainly fit the "Exotic cutoff" theme that memories of Dec 1992 conjure up.

 

It did produce prolific snow BTW on the west side...parts of Ohio had over 40 inches of snow while it was raining in BUF. Pittburhg got over 30 inches of snow even....how weird is that...Buffalo, NY is raining for a lot of the storm while Pittsburgh is getting a blizzard with temps down near 10F. I think there were below 0F temps in Nashville or somewhere around there too....that's completely insane for November.

[ORH_wxman]

"The Blizzard Bowl" during that storm in Columbus Ohio: