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Winter 2016/2017 because its never too early


Ginx snewx

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13 hours ago, Ginx snewx said:

Pretty much in total agreement with his philosophy and methods for the upcoming winter. Great read

http://www.stormhamster.com/winter1617.htm

He is exaggerating the impact of the SSTs imo.

Every season has a "catch" phrase, or area of focus....2 years ago it was the polar vortex, last year it was the SAI, and this year it seems to be the warm ssts.

Get a few cold blasts through, and poof.

SSTs are very malleable....never mind lake temps, which he says will greatly modify airmasses.

 

The Atlantic is simply not going to "push back" with warmth, with the exception of during a hugger, or inland runner....but our weather moves from west-to--east. If you want to cite a se ridge, then ok.....but that isn't the atlantic "fighting back" with warmth.

I'll by a meh winter, but not his rationale.

Silly.

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5 hours ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

He is exaggerating the impact of the SSTs imo.

Every season has a "catch" phrase, or area of focus....2 years ago it was the polar vortex, last year it was the SAI, and this year it seems to be the warm ssts.

Get a few cold blasts through, and poof.

SSTs are very malleable....never mind lake temps, which he says will greatly modify airmasses.

 

The Atlantic is simply not going to "push back" with warmth, with the exception of during a hugger, or inland runner....but our weather moves from west-to--east. If you want to cite a se ridge, then ok.....but that isn't the atlantic "fighting back" with warmth.

I'll by a meh winter, but not his rationale.

Silly.

Same with NPAC ssts. They are the result of the pattern, not influencing it. Easily overwhelmed by a NPAC trough. It may feedback some, but I think they can be overrated. The Atlantic off the east coast may have some power since the waters are warm and warm water like that has more of a say. Warm being say 70s vs 40s and 50s. 

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2 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

Same with NPAC ssts. They are the result of the pattern, not influencing it. Easily overwhelmed by a NPAC trough. It may feedback some, but I think they can be overrated. The Atlantic off the east coast may have some power since the waters are warm and warm water like that has more of a say. Warm being say 70s vs 40s and 50s. 

 

 

Vehemently agree. We are having a discussion about that topic in the NYC thread. I'm of the opinion that the chief driver of the 2013-15 anomalous/meridional geopotential heights likely emanated from the tropical Pacific, rather than the NE PAC. As you noted, there might be a positive feedback/maintenance aspect to the mid/high latitude SST's, but from a purely physical standpoint, it's difficult for me to buy that cold/very cold water temperatures can exert an influence sufficient to drive the pattern. The paper posted by bluewave in the thread corroborates our thinking regarding the tropical western Pacific being most important.

 

https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic/48093-transition-from-el-niño-to-la-niña-discussion/?page=11

 

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17 minutes ago, Isotherm said:

 

 

Vehemently agree. We are having a discussion about that topic in the NYC thread. I'm of the opinion that the chief driver of the 2013-15 anomalous/meridional geopotential heights likely emanated from the tropical Pacific, rather than the NE PAC. As you noted, there might be a positive feedback/maintenance aspect to the mid/high latitude SST's, but from a purely physical standpoint, it's difficult for me to buy that cold/very cold water temperatures can exert an influence sufficient to drive the pattern. The paper posted by bluewave in the thread corroborates our thinking regarding the tropical western Pacific being most important.

 

https://www.americanwx.com/bb/topic/48093-transition-from-el-niño-to-la-niña-discussion/?page=11

 

I agree with you. Mike V also showed a low frequency signal coming from the tropical pacific as well. Basically, a NPAC warm pool isn't really gonna sway me either way. You have to look deeper as to why it's been there. 

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3 hours ago, CoastalWx said:

Same with NPAC ssts. They are the result of the pattern, not influencing it. Easily overwhelmed by a NPAC trough. It may feedback some, but I think they can be overrated. The Atlantic off the east coast may have some power since the waters are warm and warm water like that has more of a say. Warm being say 70s vs 40s and 50s. 

Only during early season storms for the CP.

If anything, the I think the alignment of ATL ssts is favorable.

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9 hours ago, 40/70 Benchmark said:

He is exaggerating the impact of the SSTs imo.

Every season has a "catch" phrase, or area of focus....2 years ago it was the polar vortex, last year it was the SAI, and this year it seems to be the warm ssts.

Get a few cold blasts through, and poof.

SSTs are very malleable....never mind lake temps, which he says will greatly modify airmasses.

 

The Atlantic is simply not going to "push back" with warmth, with the exception of during a hugger, or inland runner....but our weather moves from west-to--east. If you want to cite a se ridge, then ok.....but that isn't the atlantic "fighting back" with warmth.

I'll by a meh winter, but not his rationale.

Silly.

I believe the extensive amount of very warm Atlantic waters certainly has a pattern effect. His point about the Great Lakes only concerned early season cold air masses being modified downwind.  

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