Eskimo Joe Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 State government closed, roads still impassable, many local govs closed, but Millersville Univ. is opening at noon. The pictures on their Facebook page show parking lots have yet to be plowed, roads are dicey and sidewalks are compacted sheet ice. It's very unfortunate that Millersville's Administration continues to make short-sighted decisions, even as President McNairy left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 My temp said -2 at 5 am. I guess radiationol cooling from the 9' snow mound nearby screwed with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashtown_Coop Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Well, bubbler, you are correct. They chose not to include my observation. I have a pretty good feeling I may know why they ignored me. If you look closely at the above obs list, pay particular attention to the towns that reported 26.0". You will see Carlisle, PA listed. You can note that their observation was 9.0" less than my observation. Well, here is where is starts to get interesting... The observation site listed as Carlisle, PA is from an NWS COOP site, the Carlisle water plant. Despite the fact that I am a certified spotter, I actually have not reported noteworthy obs to CTP for more than 6 years. I actually registered myself with CTP around 8 years ago when I lived in a different part of Carlisle. I was assigned an ID for reporting. I can't tell you why, but I actually never used the ID because I stopped actively reporting to them a short time afterwards. My research, done several years ago about the water plant, seemed to indicate that they became a cooperative site about 10 years ago. So, you might say to yourself, well the NWS accepts public obs and social media obs and puts them in these storm reports all the time. First off, I can tell you that I strongly believe that the water plant's observation is in error. That's not to say that they didn't measure 26" and then reported it, but rather that they did not take 6-hour board measurements throughout the storm because I believe it is highly unlikely that the station was manned during the actual storm. I think they just took one measurement this morning, at 0700, and it was just one ground measurement. I'm not going to go off and call them a liar because what reason would they have to give inaccurate measurements when they are a COOP site? But, here's where this gets really interesting, and why I believe CTP was unwilling to accept my observation: the Carlisle Water Plant is located literally 0.25 miles due south of my home. I can see the plant from my back yard! We have a creek and some woods that separates us. When I moved here four years ago I had no idea a COOP site was so close to me. So, I have a few ideas I'm pondering as to how to go about satisfying myself with this. The first, and simplest, is to pay the water plant a visit and to find out exactly how they produced the snow ob they submitted. I'd like to meet them anyway and to introduce myself as a fellow observer. Once I know the answer to that important question I can decide just how I want to proceed in communicating with CTP. It just so happens that I have "connections" where I might need them in order to help my cause. It's not with anyone inside the CTP office. Rather, my best friend going back to my teenage years just so happens to be the meteorologist-in-charge of the Blacksburg, VA NWS office! I am fairly certain that if I went to him and asked for some help, at the very least he could put me in touch with the appropriate person inside CTP that would handle matters like this. I'm pretty sure every major NWS office has one individual who acts as a liaison between their office and all the cooperative observers that report to that office. So, sorry for being so long-winded with this. But, I would welcome any comments and/or suggestions regarding my approach to resolving this matter. As it turns out, another coop observer in the town right next to me, Mechanicsburg, reported 36.9" for his total. I should think that this would more than help validate my pursuit of attempting to not invalidate the water plant's ob, but at least be able to have my ob counted in the list. You guys also saw the reports from my son who was about five miles away from me. He unofficially measured 37". With his 37" and my 35", it's pretty hard to imagine that the 26" measurement from the water plant could be correct. I look forward to the comments from any of you who might choose to share your opinions! I believe the Mechanicsburg report is from CoCaRahs and not an offical coop report. I searched my coop database and couldn't find Mechanicsburg listed. I would suggest that you join the CoCaRahs network. Their reports carry more credibility generally and it's a good way to keep a record of your precip and snow data. As far as this storm, I'll talk to CTP and see about adding your ob to the PNS. My snow amount wasn't listed on the NWS final NWS report summary. There are way too many reports to have on that format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick G Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 State government closed, roads still impassable, many local govs closed, but Millersville Univ. is opening at noon. The pictures on their Facebook page show parking lots have yet to be plowed, roads are dicey and sidewalks are compacted sheet ice. It's very unfortunate that Millersville's Administration continues to make short-sighted decisions, even as President McNairy left. Looks like they did close. what a mess. By not closing earlier, they send mixed signals. Here at King's, we close by 6:00 am. IF there is a possibility we can open later, we will delay. About 50% of the time if we delay, we will ultimately close for the day. Also our staff has a easy out, if they don't think it's safe, they can take a personal day. I am sure that Millersville has a similar policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillvilleWx Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 No need to apologize, Millville. With every big storm there comes a learning experience. I certainly appreciate (and I know everyone else does too) your professional expertise and commentary in our subforum. Hopefully you can share some of the aspects of what you learn about model behavior, etc, with us going forward. You can tell us what the opinions of your colleagues might have been and what ultimately led you to draw the conclusions that you did for your forecasts. We all want to learn and to keep on learning as we just enjoy our perpetual weenieness. Millville, we are all happy you are here and share your thoughts with us. No need for an apology. This was literally impossible to forecast up here. Wes and Will, great mets like yourself, thought MDT would be lucky to get 8". No one on this planet expected us to get a record storm, much less 30.2". That's once in a generation stuff. The questions I ask my students (I am Adjunct faculty at a local college): did you try your best? Do you see anything you could have done better? Did you look at all the variables? and more importantly what did you learn? After that and only after that look at what you got right. FWIW you did better that most and you didn't have huge fookin' ego. Thanks everyone. Greatly appreciated and glad to be apart of this forum. Hope everyone isn't too sore from shoveling out. Gonna be some incredible cold for Thursday night. Wouldn't be surprised to see someone like THV report -12 to -15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAG5035 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Well, bubbler, you are correct. They chose not to include my observation. I have a pretty good feeling I may know why they ignored me. If you look closely at the above obs list, pay particular attention to the towns that reported 26.0". You will see Carlisle, PA listed. You can note that their observation was 9.0" less than my observation. Well, here is where is starts to get interesting... The observation site listed as Carlisle, PA is from an NWS COOP site, the Carlisle water plant. Despite the fact that I am a certified spotter, I actually have not reported noteworthy obs to CTP for more than 6 years. I actually registered myself with CTP around 8 years ago when I lived in a different part of Carlisle. I was assigned an ID for reporting. I can't tell you why, but I actually never used the ID because I stopped actively reporting to them a short time afterwards. My research, done several years ago about the water plant, seemed to indicate that they became a cooperative site about 10 years ago. So, you might say to yourself, well the NWS accepts public obs and social media obs and puts them in these storm reports all the time. First off, I can tell you that I strongly believe that the water plant's observation is in error. That's not to say that they didn't measure 26" and then reported it, but rather that they did not take 6-hour board measurements throughout the storm because I believe it is highly unlikely that the station was manned during the actual storm. I think they just took one measurement this morning, at 0700, and it was just one ground measurement. I'm not going to go off and call them a liar because what reason would they have to give inaccurate measurements when they are a COOP site? But, here's where this gets really interesting, and why I believe CTP was unwilling to accept my observation: the Carlisle Water Plant is located literally 0.25 miles due south of my home. I can see the plant from my back yard! We have a creek and some woods that separates us. When I moved here four years ago I had no idea a COOP site was so close to me. So, I have a few ideas I'm pondering as to how to go about satisfying myself with this. The first, and simplest, is to pay the water plant a visit and to find out exactly how they produced the snow ob they submitted. I'd like to meet them anyway and to introduce myself as a fellow observer. Once I know the answer to that important question I can decide just how I want to proceed in communicating with CTP. It just so happens that I have "connections" where I might need them in order to help my cause. It's not with anyone inside the CTP office. Rather, my best friend going back to my teenage years just so happens to be the meteorologist-in-charge of the Blacksburg, VA NWS office! I am fairly certain that if I went to him and asked for some help, at the very least he could put me in touch with the appropriate person inside CTP that would handle matters like this. I'm pretty sure every major NWS office has one individual who acts as a liaison between their office and all the cooperative observers that report to that office. So, sorry for being so long-winded with this. But, I would welcome any comments and/or suggestions regarding my approach to resolving this matter. As it turns out, another coop observer in the town right next to me, Mechanicsburg, reported 36.9" for his total. I should think that this would more than help validate my pursuit of attempting to not invalidate the water plant's ob, but at least be able to have my ob counted in the list. You guys also saw the reports from my son who was about five miles away from me. He unofficially measured 37". With his 37" and my 35", it's pretty hard to imagine that the 26" measurement from the water plant could be correct. I look forward to the comments from any of you who might choose to share your opinions! How did you report your snowfall total? After they stopped using E-Spotter I either emailed my or posted snow totals on their Facebook page last year and it was pretty hit or miss whether or not my totals were used in the PNS statement. This winter I've just been sending them the snow obs via Facebook messenger, since you can actually send them a PM that way.. and it's been acknowledged every time. Looking back through PNS statements, I see that the water plant reported the total at the standard 8AM time Sunday Morning. I wonder if they made the measurement at that time and reported it, cuz it would likely have settled quite a bit by that point.. especially since it seems some of the really excessive totals were aided by high ratios. Did you get any pictures of your measurement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Anyone have a front end loader I can borrow? F me, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sauss06 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Anyone have a front end loader I can borrow? F me, yeah, tell me about it, i just finished at work. I've never had to worry about where i put snow, i'm totally out of room, i need a loader too to move piles. Twice i had our F550 stuck today, I've never been stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jns2183 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Anyone have a front end loader I can borrow? F me, yeah, tell me about it, i just finished at work. I've never had to worry about where i put snow, i'm totally out of room, i need a loader too to move piles. Twice i had our F550 stuck today, I've never been stuck. How is Harrisburg looking? Can it handle all the state workers coming back tomorrow? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sauss06 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 How is Harrisburg looking? Can it handle all the state workers coming back tomorrow? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'm the wrong guy to ask, i never leave our facility. I'm not really in Harrisburg proper either, i'm off Elmerton Ave in Susq. Twp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NortheastPAWx Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Even with the snowcover, we're flirting with 40 today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 How is Harrisburg looking? Can it handle all the state workers coming back tomorrow? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk We finally got out today, mainly thanks to X mode in all wheel drive on the RAV4. We ran over to Giant in CH, then went downtown to have a look. Roads are driveable but not great by any stretch. 2nd is 2 lanes before Forester, 1-1.5 after. The state plowed a lane shut at the Forester/2nd which is fun. Not sure about Commnwealth or 5th or anything, but downtown below 3rd is ok all things considered.The issue will be refreeze tonight. Contractors tonight will begin trying to haul out snow but as anyone who knows Harrisburg knows snow removal here is a beast unlike many places given the tiny streets and cars buried. It's a tough go. Patience will be necessary, traffic will be a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 yeah, tell me about it, i just finished at work. I've never had to worry about where i put snow, i'm totally out of room, i need a loader too to move piles. Twice i had our F550 stuck today, I've never been stuck.Yet people are going bananas because streets aren't clear. You can't plow this stuff of streets, there is absolutely no where for it to go. 30" snow is too much, it's a true disaster. Sorry you had a rough day, getting a F550 stuck is mighty impressive though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstorm Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Yet people are going bananas because streets aren't clear. You can't plow this stuff of streets, there is absolutely no where for it to go. 30" snow is too much, it's a true disaster. Sorry you had a rough day, getting a F550 stuck is mighty impressive though! I spent 4 hours digging my truck and car out at my apartment, then another 4 hours digging my wife (separated) from her house. I would do it all again. I love snow and know that with the good comes the bad. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomixwx Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I think I blew out my sciatic nerve shoveling this weekend. My lower back and right ass parts feel like Lemmy Kilmister and Clifford Burton are performing a symphony of Bass progressions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomixwx Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 then another 4 hours digging my wife (separated) from her house. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Better man than me. If I were separated from my wife I would shovel my snow up and dump it on her lawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 State closed Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Very very very icy here. Be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick G Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Better man than me. If I were separated from my wife I would shovel my snow up and dump it on her lawn. I am not separated and I do that already... Cow-orker said roads were bad due to freezing rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmsptwx Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Kinda depressing, where I used to cross country in Tioga county is mainly bare grass. Everything is backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstorm93 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Still don't have classes. All of my profs either can't make it, or hurt their backs trying to shovel. Strange times. Roads are pretty narrow here as well with virtually no sidewalks. Walking anywhere is pretty scary. Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Serious snow removal power in Harrisburg today. Armadas of equipment. Woo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itstrainingtime Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Horst thinks our next real chance at any type of winter storm isn't until the 2/7 - 2/14 time frame. Looks like a couple of quiet and relatively mild weeks ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 The melting / compacting going on is much faster than I anticipated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 45 for the high after a low of 14 this morning. I didn't measure, but I'd say we lost almost 8 inches off our snowpack due to compaction and melting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 The melting / compacting going on is much faster than I anticipated. Probably because it's still "fresh" snow. Had it sleeted or rained on it and turned it into a glacier, the process would probably be much slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomixwx Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 The melting / compacting going on is much faster than I anticipated. There's nothing to the snow. You can look at it the wrong way and it'll melt. It'll be gone by the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Might be near 50 Sunday, you're likely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NortheastPAWx Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 And as an unfavorable pattern approaches... This may go down as the least snowiest winter in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 The heavy equipment in Harrisburg right now to haul snow is crazy. They had this double-armed conveyer belt thing picking up snow from both sides of the road and putting in a dump truck. Tonight on 2nd and 3rd is this crazy machine that sucks up the snow and shoots it out into a dump truck. They're building a literal snow mountain on city island, I highly advise anyone around to drive over this weekend and check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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