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March 25-26 storm potential


Mitchel Volk

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Wouldn't be surprised at all given the "trends" of the past couple of models for the GGEM to go east.

 

 

You are discussing miniscule 50-100 mile shifts on a day 5-6 product.

Do you not understand how ridiculous that is???

 

There is no pinpointing a trend until inside of 72 hours. Even inside of 60 hours.

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Usually saying that something "caves" means that it suddenly shifts towards the solution of another model. If the GFS and EC both had similar runs at 0Z, either one already caved, or there's nothing to cave to. If you want a big storm, you will want the EC to cave towards the GGEM.

We are obviously far from the final solution here, can it miss east or hammer us? Yup! But some posters must critique they're statements when posting in a thread like this. Btw i totally understand your reasoning and enjoying hearing your input

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You are discussing miniscule 50-100 mile shifts on a day 5-6 product.

Do you not understand how ridiculous that is???

 

There is no pinpointing a trend until inside of 72 hours. Even inside of 60 hours.

5-6 days out? We are heading towards 3-4 days now....and this is when the models began to slowly loose the past couple of storms. It will be interesting.

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GFS has not trended east. On the big scale picture its actually tended stronger and west the past 24-36 hours. The Euro moved east at 0Z but that was after a move west at 12Z. The CMC edged west at 0Z. I'm not seeing a model trend there.

 

This isn't to say that a Eastern track isn't possible or even probable at this point given the overall set-up but I don't see how you can use model trends to argue that point right now. (That obviously could change by tonight)

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The 12z run of the Euro coming up will be the first run to have the storm to our latitude 

at 120 hrs so far. The Euro pretty much is in a class of its own at 120. 

 

attachicon.gifcor_day5_PMSL_MSL_G2PNA.png

The EURO has obviously earned its reputation in the past as "the King" for good reason. However, I would argue the chart you posted does not support the statement "in a class of its own". First, that is only over a 30 day period. Second, it is only "ahead" by 5%. Finally, when you look at individual data points, more than 2/3 of the time it did not verify "the best".

I am not sure how this relates to how <120 Euro runs will verify with this particular system. I am not even saying that I disagree with the statement that "inside 120 the Euro is in a class of its own" in general. I am saying that I don't believe the performance of the past 30 days is the best support for that hypothesis and to thus use it to predict the Euro as the best model to use for this storm would be misleading at best.

All that said, given the Euro's historical track record with Miller A's, I think many will be leaning pretty heavily on it in the next 48-72 hours, myself included.

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5-6 days out? We are heading towards 3-4 days now....and this is when the models began to slowly loose the past couple of storms. It will be interesting.

 

The system is not at our latitude until hour 120. DAY 5.

You are discussing things like we are inside of 48 hours.

 

Calm down.

 

P.S. 12z UKMET is super amped up, which is a great sign for the UKMET at hour 120:

 

29uvsaw.gif

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I see no significant trend in the GFS, east, west, etc.  Its just been bouncing around.

 

Even if the 12z euro goes 50 miles east and misses NYC, it's not a trend.

But Hurr_whatever and others will proclaim that it's a trend like we are inside of 72 hours.

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GFS has not trended east. On the big scale picture its actually tended stronger and west the past 24-36 hours. The Euro moved east at 0Z but that was after a move west at 12Z. The CMC edged west at 0Z. I'm not seeing a model trend there.

This isn't to say that a Eastern track isn't possible or even probable at this point given the overall set-up but I don't see how you can use model trends to argue that point right now. (That obviously could change by tonight)

We're obviously still way too far out to call it quits on this one. But that being said, the GFS actually has moved a bit east of where it was in some recent runs. Trend or not, It now just brushes even Nantucket, MA whereas earlier it was a big hit. The euro was also east. The GFS and the euro do match up quite well. The GGEM is of course a monster of a storm. However, I feel like we've been here before.....very, very recently. So if there is any "giving in" of a model, it would have to be all of the models to the GGEM. As I said earlier, I feel like this will be an all or nothing event. There's no doubt that all signs point to the storm itself being a powerhouse, but will we be able to feel those effects?

Sent from my iPhone

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http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/hpcdiscussions.php?disc=pmdepd

 

EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION
NWS WEATHER PREDICTION CENTER COLLEGE PARK MD
1158 AM EDT FRI MAR 21 2014

VALID 12Z MON MAR 24 2014 - 12Z FRI MAR 28 2014

...OVERVIEW AND PREFERENCES...

THE EARLY/MIDDLE PART OF THE MEDIUM RANGE PERIOD WILL BE
HIGHLIGHTED BY A CNTRL-ERN CONUS COLD SURGE AND RAPID/DEEP WRN
ATLC SFC DEVELOPMENT BOTH SUFFICIENTLY EXTREME FOR LATE MARCH TO
BE OBSERVED TYPICALLY ONLY ONCE EVERY 10-20 YEARS
. MEANWHILE THE
EWD PROGRESSION OF AN ERN PAC TROUGH BRINGING A PERIOD OF
UNSETTLED WEATHER TO THE WRN-CNTRL STATES WILL ENCOURAGE A RAPID
MODERATION DOWNSTREAM SO THAT BY NEXT FRI AN UNUSUALLY LARGE
PORTION OF THE LOWER 48 SHOULD SEE TEMPS FAIRLY CLOSE TO NORMAL.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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this from WPC - another reason why its so difficult to get major accumulations here in late March

 

SENSIBLE WEATHER HIGHLIGHTS...

OVER THE ERN HALF OF THE CONUS EXPECT A BROAD AREA OF HIGHS 10-25F
BELOW NORMAL MON-WED WITH PERHAPS SLIGHTLY LESS COVERAGE OF SUCH
EXTREMES FOR MIN TEMPS. SHRTWVS FEEDING INTO THE AMPLIFYING ERN
TROUGH ALOFT SHOULD GENERATE A BAND OF LGT TO PSBLY MDT SNOW
ACROSS PARTS OF THE MIDWEST/OH VLY INTO CNTRL APLCHNS MON-TUE WITH
THE DEVELOPING WRN ATLC STORM EXTENDING THE POTENTIAL FOR SNOW
FROM PORTIONS OF THE MID ATLC INTO THE NORTHEAST TUE-WED. E OF
THE APLCHNS ACCUMULATIONS WILL LIKELY DEPEND ON THE TIME OF DAY

SNOWFALL OCCURS AS WELL AS TRACK OF THE SFC LOW. AREAS NEAR THE E
COAST WILL ALSO HAVE TO MONITOR IMPACTS FROM STRONG WINDS
PRIMARILY LATE TUE INTO WED NIGHT.

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this from WPC - another reason why its so difficult to get major accumulations here in late March

 

SENSIBLE WEATHER HIGHLIGHTS...

OVER THE ERN HALF OF THE CONUS EXPECT A BROAD AREA OF HIGHS 10-25F

BELOW NORMAL MON-WED WITH PERHAPS SLIGHTLY LESS COVERAGE OF SUCH

EXTREMES FOR MIN TEMPS. SHRTWVS FEEDING INTO THE AMPLIFYING ERN

TROUGH ALOFT SHOULD GENERATE A BAND OF LGT TO PSBLY MDT SNOW

ACROSS PARTS OF THE MIDWEST/OH VLY INTO CNTRL APLCHNS MON-TUE WITH

THE DEVELOPING WRN ATLC STORM EXTENDING THE POTENTIAL FOR SNOW

FROM PORTIONS OF THE MID ATLC INTO THE NORTHEAST TUE-WED. E OF

THE APLCHNS ACCUMULATIONS WILL LIKELY DEPEND ON THE TIME OF DAY

SNOWFALL OCCURS AS WELL AS TRACK OF THE SFC LOW. AREAS NEAR THE E

COAST WILL ALSO HAVE TO MONITOR IMPACTS FROM STRONG WINDS

PRIMARILY LATE TUE INTO WED NIGHT.

If it snows heavily enough here it will stick. Period. 850mb temps are also supposed to be in the -10C to -12C range, so ground temps may be in the 20s.

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