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December 14-15 Winter Storm Part Two


earthlight

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It really is all about the surface wind direction for us. That's another difference maker on the NAM-it keeps a NE/ENE wind direction in NYC, and keeps the snow in place longer, at least until the mid level warm air arrives-buying another hour or two. The GFS gets much warmer at the surface (probably too warm-it torches all the way through SNE as well) and ends the snow too early for any really significant accumulation.

I agree.

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I think they get dinged on their verification if they issue a Watch and then only issue an advisory in the end, but for a metro area with 20 million people that rule should not apply, people see no watch for the 5 boroughs and they figure it won't be that bad.

Does the general public even know the difference? The idiot DJ on 101.1 just broadcasted that the whole area was under a watch except for Long Island.

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Most of what falls east of the city is probably going to get washed away with a GFS solution. Hopefully the NAM scores one.

 

Most of us up here here would love for the NAM to score one but I think the reality is the NAM is too wet and too cold. Wouldn't be surprised to see the NAM start chipping away at its totals at 18z.

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I agree, it seems like some winters they are very reluctant to issue the watches.

 

I think they get dinged on their verification if they issue a Watch and then only issue an advisory in the end, but for a metro area with 20 million people that rule should not apply, people see no watch for the 5 boroughs and they figure it won't be that bad.

We don't get dinged in our verification for issuing a watch and then only issuing an advisory, verification is only based off the issuances of warnings. Watches are issued when the forecaster has 50% or higher confidence in reaching warning criteria snow amounts.

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Most of us up here here would love for the NAM to score one but I think the reality is the NAM is too wet and too cold. Wouldn't be surprised to see the NAM start chipping away at its totals at 18z.

 

The NAM has been notorious for having insane 18Z QPF runs before storms, don't be shocked if it drops 2 feet on someone today.

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Heavy snow alone does not make it a ku event.

Correct, people must remember the equation used takes into account overall impact in a wide area, amounts of snow/ ice over the area and amount of people affected. A few states getting a foot or two of snow doesnt constitute a KU. 96', 93', 03' etc. are prime examples of how the KU system works. Those storms dumped copious amounts of snow over a wide swath of the US and caused problems for millions upon millions of people in the US both economically and personally. This event is a quick hitting inland storm that will cause signifigan icing/snowfall in some places but not over a "wide" area of the country.

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The 12Z SPC WRF overall is not impressive on the radar echoes from 15-23Z, more or less very light snow, the NAM has hinted at this to an extent as well, partly why the coastal areas may be closer to 2 inches than 4 unless between 00 and 03z it can come down very hard and hold off the mid-level warmth a bit longer.

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Just noticed (very late) that NWS issued a WSW for Eastern Bergen but not across the river to Manhattan. Interesting.

Yup, I said earlier to JSantana that I've seen the R/S line setup on the Hudson River before and it happened not too long ago. I have thought all along that this particular system had for part of this storm the potential to have the Hudson River as the R/S line.

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Anybody north and west of NYC stand a good chance at 6"+ snow anybody (like me) south and east of NYC a slushy couple inches before the warm air floods the coastal plain. Enjoy what ever you get though. Its december 12th and our second snow threat of the season isnt too shabby

What about North and East - i.e. upper Fairfield County?  Hard time to get opinions for this area both here and in the New England forum.

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