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December 14/15 winter storm threat


Typhoon Tip

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I'd like to see H7 redevelop before entertaining the notion of 12"+......

 

7-11".

 

This cf is going to be epic....probably makes it to about my hood on the GFS/UK

 

Not only that but this is just such a fast mover and the heaviest of the QPF is only overhead for a brief amount of time.  Makes me real nervous about going widespread 8'+, however, there are alot of signals which suggest that is possible but the negatives against that are rather strong.

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no mention of feedback but:

 

STORM SYSTEM MOVING UP THE EAST COAST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PREFERENCE:  GFS/ECMWF/UKMET COMPROMISE
CONFIDENCE:  AVERAGE

ALOFT, THERE ARE SLIGHT DEPTH ISSUES WITH THE TWO SHORTWAVES
DRIVING THIS SYSTEM NORTHEASTWARD.  THE 00Z NAM/12Z CANADIAN SHOW
A DEEPER UPPER TROUGH FROM THE OHIO VALLEY SOUTHWARD, WHILE THE
00Z GFS SHOWS A STRONGER SHORTWAVE MOVING THROUGH PA/NY SUNDAY
MORNING, THOUGH ITS MID-LEVEL HEIGHTS FARTHER DOWN THE TROUGH AXIS
APPEAR TOO HIGH COMPARED TO THE OTHER DETERMINISTIC GUIDANCE.  THE
NAM IS KNOWN TO HAVE A STRONG BIAS ALOFT WITH SYSTEMS IN THE
WESTERLIES, SO ITS SOLUTION -- AND THE CANADIAN BY EXTENSION --
WILL BE CONSIDERED TOO WEAK.
  WITH THE 00Z GFS/12Z ECMWF/12Z UKMET
SPLITTING THE DIFFERENCE ALOFT WITH THE HEIGHT VALUES WITH THE
MAIN TROUGH, AND THE THREE QUITE AGREEABLE WITH THE SURFACE LOW
TRACKS THROUGH SUNDAY, THE PREFERENCE IS FOR A 00Z GFS/12Z
ECMWF/12Z UKMET COMPROMISE WITH AVERAGE CONFIDENCE CONSIDERING THE
SYSTEM'S PROGRESSIVE NATURE.
 

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thats a late phase, great for interior. cbb bomb for upstate NY.

Most of the QPF in upstate NY is associated with the primary low.  The heavier secondary precip is confined to new england.  Moderate QPF falls just about everywhere, but I don't see high ratios outside of NNY and NNE.  The good lift doesn't arrive until a warm nose is well established.  The snow should still be pretty fluffy though.  There also isn't really a ccb or any wraparound to speak of.  Nevertheless, this has a chance to be the biggest snowstorm in 2 years for ENY.

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Not only that but this is just such a fast mover and the heaviest of the QPF is only overhead for a brief amount of time. Makes me real nervous about going widespread 8'+, however, there are alot of signals which suggest that is possible but the negatives against that are rather strong.

8+ could be tough to do down there
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Cmc also closere in but surprisingly snowy given track. I think the cold doesn't scour so easily at least not in lower levels away from the ocean.

 

The CMC has one of the most finite grids, so it may just be picking up on the cold intensity - which is not getting the press it needs in this social media.  

 

We're New Englanders, folks!  Since when does a fresh ARCTIC high just get blithely obliterated by a partial phase. Answer, almost never. 

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8+ could be tough to do down there

 

When talking 8''+ over a widespread area I think it could be difficult to do.  It's just such a tough call right now b/c when dealing with totals like that over a widespread area you would at least like to see at least some sort of defined mid-level circulation but this system is rather absent of that.  

 

What we are relying on here is very intense lift, coupled with very intense frontogenesis along with great snowfall growth and ratios.  While a setup like this can absolutely produce those types of totals over a widespread area it's not a sure bet, especially b/c this system will be moving so quickly and the best ingredients leading to heavier snow rates may only be brief (3-4 hour window)

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This is definitely setting up to be a December 16th, 2007 Lite redux.  I thought I was getting 2 or 3 and got 10.  The Best surprise storm of my life on the postive side (Christmas of 2002 storm was the biggest Negative surprise weeks after I began officially keeping Snow stats too!)  This could be more of expecting 3-6 and get 10-12.  

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Harv just left by saying it's possible he'll have to shift all those lines north as a strong ocean wind lowers accumulations.

 

He lost that debate with me back in 2003, Dec 5, when fresh polar-arctic high contributed and forced the CF to lock SE of Brockton near the Canal.  

 

No, not going to happen folks.  This air mass will win, period. 

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12/15/07 I rememeber even down in NYC we saw a 5-6 hour period FZRAPL and PL and we thought we'd be all rain...the funny thing is the 36 hour CIPS panel has 12/5/02 in there as well, also 12/14/03

 

 

12/14/03 has a lot of similarities..though this airmass is definitely colder. I have noticed that the airmass in this one will be on the colder side of the analogs...both in the low levels and mid-levels. 12/16/07 was a really cold airmass, though still not even quite as cold as the one progged for Saturday.

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