Baroclinic Zone Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 bout to get it good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice1972 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Man there some good forkers up in the clouds.....think they continue with that stuff coming in from the NW? Lol I'm a forker porker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 really nice lightning show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROOSTA Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Best thundershower around here in a very longtime. Great way to bring in the swamp material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stash Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm now located in Ballston Lake, a little north of Clifton Park center in Saratoga County. As the line approached, sky turned black with maybe a slight greenish tint. The wind went from eerie calm to very gusty in a short period of time. I knew the bow was coming back when it pushed east of Utica, but had everything off while we were playing with the kids. 3 of our 4 animals went berserk, so I popped on the computer and saw the tornado warning. Moved the family into the basement just in case, but no damage that I could see (worst missed just to our south). This isn't my first tornado warning here in ENY. I'd be interested in any studies done on severe weather in the Upstate NY area from say Columbia County up to the Glens Falls area. Here in Saratoga especially, we seem to get hit more frequently by severe weather than anywhere else in the northeast I've lived. It looks like that couplet has died down now just a bit, though that was certainly something on the ground at least briefly.... that's actually right near Logan11's place... he's on the Schenectady/Albany County line in that NW corner of Albany county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekuasepinniW Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 You guys have a nice reach around thunderstorm there near Laconia ... Nothing but a quick burst of moderate rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 The Lancaster County storm had a TDS for >20 minutes and never had a tornado warning on it. The thing was clear as day. That I'll never understand other than either the radar operator/warning forecaster wasn't trained on how to use dual pol or he/she just never looked. I'm sure part of it is the novelty of dual-pol. Some people may not be comfortable or confident in what they're seeing, some might be entrenched in their habits during severe weather (especially if things get hectic and they need to load shed). My two cents, you have 5 minutes between volume scans. More than enough time to at least check the dual-pol 0.5 degree scans while waiting. Instead of twiddling your thumbs at 19.5 degrees waiting for the next volume scan to start, that's when you check other products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Yeah that's been one thing to watch out for..especially in the plains where the updrafts suck up birds..lol. Actually I've noticed quite a bit with storms out west, that just before tornadogenesis CC drops in the inflow region. Almost as if the storm is taking one big deep breath of inflow. Other WFOs have noticed this as well, but as of yet there isn't a more scientific explanation the hypothesis of increasing inflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Tip, I was thinking the same thing Back asswards Well there is a reason the text says "in and around the watch area." At some point resources are best used watching the radar and fielding phone calls, rather than pushing our a watch expansion for a county or two. The severe reports basically ended a county east of the watch anyway, and a tree branch falling on wires in Auburn is pretty marginal at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Actually I've noticed quite a bit with storms out west, that just before tornadogenesis CC drops in the inflow region. Almost as if the storm is taking one big deep breath of inflow. Other WFOs have noticed this as well, but as of yet there isn't a more scientific explanation the hypothesis of increasing inflow. That's interesting. Perhaps as the rotation tightens up you get those pressure perturbations and increased vertical velocity thanks to the rotation. Nice crawlers above my house now BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm sure part of it is the novelty of dual-pol. Some people may not be comfortable or confident in what they're seeing, some might be entrenched in their habits during severe weather (especially if things get hectic and they need to load shed). My two cents, you have 5 minutes between volume scans. More than enough time to at least check the dual-pol 0.5 degree scans while waiting. Instead of twiddling your thumbs at 19.5 degrees waiting for the next volume scan to start, that's when you check other products. I've gotten in the habit of leaving 0.5 CC up in QLCS or discrete cell cases. The thing jumped out at me as soon as the 0.5 volume scan came in. I totally get how it takes time to be comfortable with it and it's just one more thing to look at in a really hectic situation. What as really impressed me about dual pol here in the NE is how there have now been several cases where TDS have actually preceded warnings... all in QLCS cases. That should be a pretty big red flag about the importance of monitoring 0.5 CC/ZDR every volume scan not just for confirming of tornado in an SVS but even for issuing a warning in a borderline case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Actually I've noticed quite a bit with storms out west, that just before tornadogenesis CC drops in the inflow region. Almost as if the storm is taking one big deep breath of inflow. Other WFOs have noticed this as well, but as of yet there isn't a more scientific explanation the hypothesis of increasing inflow. Yeah I've seen that mentioned in some of the dual pol storm of the month webinars and one of the WDTB AWOC things. Makes sense though if you have a rain-free area south of the mesocyclone and you ramp up the inflow or suck in some RFD winds you can pick up insects and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New England Storm Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 That was a nice light show, rain still coming down at a nice clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wow it's really dorky that I'm looking forward to this storm being over so I can check my rain gauge lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I've gotten in the habit of leaving 0.5 CC up in QLCS or discrete cell cases. The thing jumped out at me as soon as the 0.5 volume scan came in. I totally get how it takes time to be comfortable with it and it's just one more thing to look at in a really hectic situation. What as really impressed me about dual pol here in the NE is how there have now been several cases where TDS have actually preceded warnings... all in QLCS cases. That should be a pretty big red flag about the importance of monitoring 0.5 CC/ZDR every volume scan not just for confirming of tornado in an SVS but even for issuing a warning in a borderline case. One thing about the Northeast versus the Plains, is that the second a tornado touches down it will be lofting some sort of tree debris in the air. We've even seen Plains tornadoes produce TDSs with just dust being lofted. So it's a powerful tool that, as you say, can provide at least zero lead time rather than negative lead time for these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wow it's really dorky that I'm looking forward to this storm being over so I can check my rain gauge lol.what's the Davis read? Nice follow up line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 One thing about the Northeast versus the Plains, is that the second a tornado touches down it will be lofting some sort of tree debris in the air. We've even seen Plains tornadoes produce TDSs with just dust being lofted. So it's a powerful tool that, as you say, can provide at least zero lead time rather than negative lead time for these events. I think we're also going to see an uptick in tornado reports thanks to dual pol. While the tornado touch down near Schenectady/Rotterdam probably impacted some neighborhoods the one out in Schoharie County was in the middle of nowhere. That thing probably was down for 10 minutes in the woods. Now the NWS/media knows exactly where to investigate. I've been impressed at how high the debris gets lofted and how quickly it gets lofted around here thanks to so many trees. Out in the plains there have been some cases where there's been no TDS until the thing hits a town... dual pol can sniff out a tornado around here 20 miles from the nearest house out in the woods most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice1972 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Man it's really going off outside....tons of lightning....movie type stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I just read the thread, was there and damage from that debris balll storm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 what's the Davis read? Nice follow up line Davis is up to 1.00" though we had 0.18" overnight. My cocorahs gauge is mounted about 3" higher than the Davis gauge on the north side of a post so the Davis gauge can miss out. BTW... best thunder of the night right now. 2 crazy booms... poor dog is back under the table hiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Nice bright white + CG to finish it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 I just read the thread, was there and damage from that debris balll storm? Yeah... 2 simultaneous tornado debris signatures west of Albany. One just west of Rotterdam and another in rural Schoharie County near Jefferson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I think we're also going to see an uptick in tornado reports thanks to dual pol. While the tornado touch down near Schenectady/Rotterdam probably impacted some neighborhoods the one out in Schoharie County was in the middle of nowhere. That thing probably was down for 10 minutes in the woods. Now the NWS/media knows exactly where to investigate. I've been impressed at how high the debris gets lofted and how quickly it gets lofted around here thanks to so many trees. Out in the plains there have been some cases where there's been no TDS until the thing hits a town... dual pol can sniff out a tornado around here 20 miles from the nearest house out in the woods most likely. I'm going to try and get GR2analyst over the next few months. Money is tight, but I may be able to get it "work" related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I think we're also going to see an uptick in tornado reports thanks to dual pol. While the tornado touch down near Schenectady/Rotterdam probably impacted some neighborhoods the one out in Schoharie County was in the middle of nowhere. That thing probably was down for 10 minutes in the woods. Now the NWS/media knows exactly where to investigate. I've been impressed at how high the debris gets lofted and how quickly it gets lofted around here thanks to so many trees. Out in the plains there have been some cases where there's been no TDS until the thing hits a town... dual pol can sniff out a tornado around here 20 miles from the nearest house out in the woods most likely. I have also been impressed with some of the TDSs around here. Like 10 kft TDSs, a la the violent tornadoes (EF3 and 4). It makes sense when you think that CC is just a measure of how well correlated targets are. So whether it's wet leaves and twigs or 2x4s it doesn't really matter, it's still a TDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Yeah... 2 simultaneous tornado debris signatures west of Albany. One just west of Rotterdam and another in rural Schoharie County near Jefferson.cool almost exactly where I saw some gravity wave clouds early tonight. I tried to get Wiz and Chris to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 I have also been impressed with some of the TDSs around here. Like 10 kft TDSs, a la the violent tornadoes (EF3 and 4). It makes sense when you think that CC is just a measure of how well correlated targets are. So whether it's wet leaves and twigs or 2x4s it doesn't really matter, it's still a TDS. Yeah exactly... I imagine it will help you guys a ton knowing where to look for tornado damage up in rural Maine. The Lancaster County storm had 5 straight volume scans with debris really high up for a pretty unimpressive tornado (EF0/EF1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Yeah exactly... I imagine it will help you guys a ton knowing where to look for tornado damage up in rural Maine. The Lancaster County storm had 5 straight volume scans with debris really high up for a pretty unimpressive tornado (EF0/EF1). I like how our radar is situated compared to the hotbed areas up here for severe weather. We get a lot of our little tornadoes in southern Oxford and Franklin Counties. That's pretty much the same distance from the radar here as the stuff was from ENX tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT Rain Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 I like how our radar is situated compared to the hotbed areas up here for severe weather. We get a lot of our little tornadoes in southern Oxford and Franklin Counties. That's pretty much the same distance from the radar here as the stuff was from ENX tonight. What I'm interested in seeing down the line is false alarm TDS. I saw that it is possible for a TDS to occur without a tornado... though it's very rare. I imagine we'll learn more as all the offices start identifying more and more cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlantStickers Anonymous Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Great lightning and torrential downpours earlier. Still getting thunder and lightning but not as frequent. Quite a few people around town saying whole areas lost power. Just got some house shaking thunder. Fun evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 What I'm interested in seeing down the line is false alarm TDS. I saw that it is possible for a TDS to occur without a tornado... though it's very rare. I imagine we'll learn more as all the offices start identifying more and more cases. That one is a head scratcher for me. I think I know the case you're referring to. I have to think that there was a circulation on the ground lofting leaf litter, but just produced no discernible damage for a survey to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.