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March 6-7 banter thread


tombo82685

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What I got from that is HPC was changing their probabilistic snow products to better match the watch/warning criteria used by the NWS Forecast Offices.

yes Mike,and right after that they went to digital forecasting and changed the criteria.  After reading several old posting back in 1996-2000, the 4-6 wording was removed from the warning as as being to broad and became more specific and was based more on probabiliites for specific amounts. The digital probabilities do not match the warning criteria.  the 2-4 -8-10 etc does not match as well. Not blaming regional offices but this looked like it was pushed on you guys from the HPC to adopt back then. I noticed the NOAA report on how the 96 storm event was handled  was somewhat critical about this in their report.  I do not agree and they were on the ball at Mt Holly.  It was the transportation function that was at fault (PennDot) for accepting the information as not being critical

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yes Mike,and right after that they went to digital forecasting and changed the criteria.  After reading several old posting back in 1996-2000, the 4-6 wording was removed from the warning as as being to broad and became more specific and was based more on probabiliites for specific amounts. The digital probabilities do not match the warning criteria.  the 2-4 -8-10 etc does not match as well. Not blaming regional offices but this looked like it was pushed on you guys from the HPC to adopt back then. I noticed the NOAA report on how the 96 storm event was handled  was somewhat critical about this in their report.  I do not agree and they were on the ball at Mt Holly.  It was the transportation function that was at fault (PennDot) for accepting the information as not being critical

 

Okay. :huh:

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I'm really at the point of making a separate thread just for Nam nonsense, kind of like the vendor thread. This way it won't clog up real discussion with its loltastic showings.

The 6Z NAM got a bit more realistic compared to its earlier runs for tonight's snow.  Hopefully that's a trend.  I might even cut the top inch off if it dips down to GFS numbers and say "coating to 1"

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Phlwx or ray anyone else want to share there worse weather bust? For me it was January 08, still depress about it

March 2001, hands down. Of course Boxing Day ten years later made up for that one. But march 2001 had all the hype. I remember Kocin painting 2 to 3 feet right over NJ 60 hours out. 2nd biggest bust is jan 1988. Currently, this, I wouldn't even call a bust because I never expected much with being on the western fringe and a crappy boundary layer.

Not sure what happened Jan 08. I remember V-Day 08. This board was on high suicide alert. I can't say it was bust for me anyway. I never seen a storm produce 4" of sleet before with no rain. Ended up with five total for that. I actually thought it was pretty cool.

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6/6/10 was a real shame because if the stratiform rain/clouds didn't intercept the prefrontal convection, we would have had a rare northern Mid Atlantic/southern New England tornado outbreak.

A lot of people gave bad reasons for why the severe weather fell apart that day, just like they are for why DC-BAL didn't get snow yesterday. :o

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march 2001 hands down..Up this way most did not have high expectations, and Ray you did make a good call for the area. The comments in the other thread were more DC based.

Its OK... I shouldn't have gotten upset by it.  I'm just so frustrated right now...

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3/5/01 at least trended away down the stretch in a chunk of the modeling. For DC and South Central PA (they were supposed to get 5"+ as well), this was worse than 3/5/01.

 

For Philly, it wasn't supposed to be a huge storm...it busted but outside of the NAM there weren't many model runs from the globals that supported big snow to really get enthused about the prospect.

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6/6/10 was a real shame because if the stratiform rain/clouds didn't intercept the prefrontal convection, we would have had a rare northern Mid Atlantic/southern New England tornado outbreak.

A lot of people gave bad reasons for why the severe weather fell apart that day, just like they are for why DC-BAL didn't get snow yesterday. :o

burrrrrrn

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Wish this wasn't the case but a Winter Storm Warning forecast of 4-7" that's verified with 0"/green grass outcome seemingly serves to support the public perception that this profession is guess work at best.

I mostly agree with this too.  I was surprised as this storm was closer and what was being observed that ChesCo wasn't downgraded to a WWA.  Preception wise, that's not as bad when an advisory doesn't work out.  Based on the warning Oxford schools and also Cecil county were closed.

 

Personally, want to thank you all once again for letting us lay people join in once in awhile.  I am mostly lurking and trying to learn.  I've seen others post this as well---when I get asked about certain forecasts and I give answers based on all the information I gain here, well I have been proclaimed a weather god!~LOL  (if they only knew!).

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Ray, you did a great job this week.  When I see other people guessing at high totals and see you talking about a coating to 2 inches, I know to dial down my expectations.  I know I would rather have a storm exceed my expectations than be let down.  I don't understand why so many people seem to want to follow the guys who almost always erroneously predict the highest amount of snow.  Is it some kind of adrenaline rush thing that I just don't understand?  If one guy predicts 4" and another guy predicts 12" and you wind up with 6", wouldn't you be much more likely to put your trust next time in the guy who was only off by 2"?  Yet it seems like the opposite is true in the land of the weather weenies.

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By the way, since people were talking about the biggest busts, this one will always be the one I think of that let me down the most.  Only time I ever remember Philly being under a PDS Tornado Watch.  Even the local forecast on The Weather Channel was ominous that Sunday - the picture for that day's weather showed a large tornado and the text even said "destructive tornadoes possible."

 

 

URGENT - IMMEDIATE BROADCAST REQUESTED
TORNADO WATCH NUMBER 358 
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK 
150 PM EDT SUN MAY 11 2003

THE NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER HAS ISSUED A
TORNADO WATCH FOR PORTIONS OF 

CENTRAL NEW YORK
CENTRAL AND EASTERN PENNSYLVANIA
LAKE ONTARIO

EFFECTIVE THIS SUNDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING FROM 150 PM UNTIL 700
PM EDT.

...THIS IS A PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS SITUATION...

DESTRUCTIVE TORNADOES...LARGE HAIL TO 2 INCHES IN DIAMETER...
THUNDERSTORM WIND GUSTS TO 80 MPH...AND DANGEROUS LIGHTNING ARE
POSSIBLE IN THESE AREAS.

THE TORNADO WATCH AREA IS ALONG AND 65 STATUTE MILES EAST AND WEST
OF A LINE FROM 50 MILES SOUTHWEST OF HARRISBURG PENNSYLVANIA TO 15
MILES NORTH NORTHEAST OF WATERTOWN NEW YORK.

REMEMBER...A TORNADO WATCH MEANS CONDITIONS ARE FAVORABLE FOR
TORNADOES AND SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS IN AND CLOSE TO THE WATCH AREA.
PERSONS IN THESE AREAS SHOULD BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR THREATENING
WEATHER CONDITIONS AND LISTEN FOR LATER STATEMENTS AND POSSIBLE
WARNINGS.

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March 2001 the biggest bust i can remember

 

But second biggest was February 8th this year. I was universally modelled to receive bewteen 8-15" snow for that one and measured 2.7"

 

This has been a dissapointing winter for snow not working out reminiscient of the 80's. Post sandy storm i was expecting 3" and got nothing and of course there is just the other day. Three strike winter

 

*** Nevermind that this February 8th was clearly a bigger debacle then 2001. That storm had folded 24 hours out and had come during a winter that had two high end MECS and one 8" surprise snow in february, this years storm had a chance to break a two winter snow drought

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