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Sandy speculation thread


snowstormcanuck

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^^ forgot to say that is the 12z HWRF which was pretty much spot on at initialization, fwiw.

If that realized, i bet that would have to be a record low barometric pressure this far inland. I believe the old record for the continental U.S. was the Cleveland bomb at 952.

Edit: that doesn't imply higher winds than the CLE bomb. That storm also had a much stronger pressure gradient with a much stronger HP in place

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These models are going to continue to struggle with pressure - we are in uncharted territory. They are almost all initializing the storm's pressure to high, not to mention the storm is looking better organized and more tropical in nature by the minute. This thing is going to be a monster, especially as it continues to ingest some of the baroclinic energy.

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Record for an inland, extratropical system was the Octobomb at 953 mb.

I remember there being some controversy...initially it was thought that Octobomb may have been a record but I think there was some storm in the northeast that was a tad deeper.

Don't know what this one will be classified as though since it's not starting out as non-tropical.

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If that realized, i bet that would have to be a record low barometric pressure this far inland. I believe the old record for the continental U.S. was the Cleveland bomb at 952.

Edit: that doesn't imply higher winds than the CLE bomb. That storm also had a much stronger pressure gradient with a much stronger HP in place

Top three records....

955.0 mb (28.20 inches of mercury) 13 January 1913 at Canton, New York

955.0 mb (28.20 inches of mercury) 7 March 1932 at Block Island, Rhode Island

955.2 mb (28.21 inches of mercury) 26 October 2010 at Bigfork, MN

The question is will it still be tropical at landfall, if it is there is no shot at the record...which is for extra-tropical storms.

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Speaking of snow, how often do we see the NHC mention snow in one of their products?

BULLETIN

HURRICANE SANDY INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY NUMBER 25A

NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL182012

200 PM EDT SUN OCT 28 2012

...SANDY EXPECTED TO BRING LIFE-THREATENING STORM SURGE FLOODING TO

THE MID-ATLANTIC COAST...INCLUDING LONG ISLAND SOUND AND NEW YORK

HARBOR...

...WINDS FORECAST TO BE NEAR HURRICANE FORCE AT LANDFALL...

...HEAVY SNOW EXPECTED IN PORTIONS OF THE APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS...

SNOWFALL..SNOW ACCUMULATIONS OF 2 TO 3 FEET ARE EXPECTED IN THE

MOUNTAINS OF WEST VIRGINIA...WITH LOCALLY HIGHER TOTALS TONIGHT

THROUGH TUESDAY NIGHT. SNOWFALL OF 1 TO 2 FEET IS EXPECTED IN

THE MOUNTAINS OF SOUTHWESTERN VIRGINIA TO THE KENTUCKY BORDER...

WITH 12 TO 18 INCHES OF SNOW POSSIBLE IN THE MOUNTAINS NEAR THE

NORTH CAROLINA/TENNESSEE BORDER.

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These models are going to continue to struggle with pressure - we are in uncharted territory. They are almost all initializing the storm's pressure to high, not to mention the storm is looking better organized and more tropical in nature by the minute. This thing is going to be a monster, especially as it continues to ingest some of the baroclinic energy.

Based on what I can tell the new 12z Euro forecast the storm to be at 960mb at 15z this morning, and NHC had it at 951mb. Extrapolating that out to the landfall tomorrow night....The Euro has it down to 944mb on the Jersey shore, so taking another 9mb off that would put it at 935mb.

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I'm surprised that this forum is so dead....

I doubt widespread stratiform rains, high winds and temps in the 40s excites many people. In fact, it's the worst possible type of weather one can ask for IMO.

I'm only tracking this storm for the potentially record low barometric pressure.

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DTX

AS FOR HOW THIS INFLUENCES WIND POTENTIAL, CONFIDENCE IS INCREASED

THAT THE REAL PUSH OF MOISTURE/PRECIP WILL NOT BE UNTIL AFTER 06Z

TUESDAY MORNING, WHICH AT LEAST PAINTS A CLEARER PICTURE OF HOW WIND

POTENTIAL WILL UNFOLD PRIOR TO THAT TIME. A WIND ADVISORY STILL

REMAINS IN PLAY FOR AT LEAST THE FIRST HALF OF MONDAY NIGHT, BUT

MOST LIKELY INTO TUESDAY MORNING AS WELL SINCE THE

MOISTENING/STABILIZING BOUNDARY LAYER, WHILE PROBABLY INHIBITING

GUSTS TO 50 KNOTS/HIGH WIND WARNING CRITERIA, MAY NOT BE SUFFICIENT

TO PREVENT GUSTS TO 35KTS/ADVISORY LEVEL. THE GRADIENT ALONE SHOULD

SUPPORT SUSTAINED WINDS OF 25 KNOTS OR HIGHER. HOWEVER, WITH NORTH

WINDS RAGING OVER LAKE HURON LATE MONDAY THROUGH TUESDAY, A HIGH

WIND WATCH MAY YET BE NEEDED FOR AT LEAST HURON AND SANILAC

COUNTIES. AT THIS POINT, FEEL THAT CONFIDENCE IN HIGH WIND CRITERIA

FOR THOSE LOCATIONS IS ACTUALLY HIGHER THAN ADVISORY POTENTIAL

ELSEWHERE GIVEN THE EXTREMELY FAVORABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR

OVERACHIEVING COURTESY OF EXTREME FRICTIONAL/TURBULENT MIXING AS

STRONG NORTH WINDS SURGE INLAND. HOWEVER, THE MAGNITUDE AND DEPTH OF

THE ADJUSTMENT THAT WILL BE TAKING PLACE OVER THE NORTHEASTERN

UNITED STATES SUGGESTS CAUTION AS ANY UNFORESEEN DEVIATION FROM

EXPECTATIONS WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE TERRIBLY SIGNIFICANT FOR ITS

EFFECTS TO ROLL DOWNHILL AND THROW A WRENCH INTO THE FORECAST.

THEREFORE, WILL DEFER HIGH WIND WATCH CONSIDERATION FOR THE

AFOREMENTIONED COUNTIES UNTIL AT LEAST THE NEXT FORECAST CYCLE.

GLOBAL MODELS SUGGEST A RETURN TO A MORE PROGRESSIVE PATTERN IN THE

WAKE OF THE UPPER LOW, WITH SHORTWAVE RIDGING AND DRIER AIR BUILDING

IN FOR THE END OF THE WEEK. UNTIL THEN, HIGHS WILL REMAIN IN 40S

UNDER BRISK NORTH FLOW AND PLENTY OF CLOUDS WHILE THE SAME

CONDITIONS WILL KEEP OVERNIGHT LOWS LIMITED TO 30-40F.

&&

facepalm.png

25-30' waves on Huron sure excite me! I'm going up to check this out!

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So far 1.04" with the front. We could possibly go over 3" storm total but it's such a long duration event, I think we're safe from any kind of large scale flooding. Tree and powerline damage due to the winds tomorrow night into Tuesday look to be the main threat.

We've had steady rain all afternoon...mod to heavy here in Columbus area. Looking at the radar it's getting heavier and training due north, nw, with the front and no end in sight. I don't think ILN wasn't expecting this amount of rain with the front either. Probably not good saturating the ground this much before a sustained period of highwinds.

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We've had steady rain all afternoon...mod to heavy here in Columbus area. Looking at the radar it's getting heavier and training due north, nw, with the front and no end in sight. I don't think ILN wasn't expecting this amount of rain with the front either. Probably not good saturating the ground this much before a sustained period of highwinds.

And it has just started to rain here. Looks like its tracking to the Northwest.. 45 dbz on a couple of the cells-----

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I would suspect LOT will hoist advisories pretty soon as well.

Lake Michigan waves should reach 20 feet by Tuesday morning!

INFLUENCE ON THE WEATHER PATTERN WILL THEN BE DICTATED BY HURRICANE

SANDY AS IT BLOCKS THE WEST-TO-EAST PROGRESSION ACROSS THE UPPER

MISSISSIPPI VALLEY AND GREAT LAKES. THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER

FORECASTS THE SYSTEM TO MAKE LANDFALL IN THE NJ/DELMARVA REGION

LATE MONDAY NIGHT WITH THE REMNANT CENTER PROGRESSING SLOWLY TO

WESTERN NY BY MIDDAY WEDNESDAY. THE RADIUS OF INFLUENCE IS ALREADY

IMPRESSIVELY MASSIVE WITHIN THE PRESSURE AND WIND FIELD...AND THAT

WILL ONLY EXPAND AS EXTRATROPICAL CHARACTERISTICS TAKE OVER WITH

THE PHASING OF THE NORTHERN STREAM AND THIS SYSTEM. WHAT BECOMES

VERY APPARENT BY LATE MONDAY NIGHT IS THE UNIDIRECTIONAL NORTHERLY

FLOW THROUGH THE 500 MB TO SURFACE LAYER OVER LAKE MI...INCLUDING

A 50 TO 65 KT PLUS JET /DEPENDING ON GUIDANCE/ IN THE 1000-4000 FT

LAYER. THIS FLOW PATTERN ALSO MAXIMIZES THE FETCH OF LAKE

MICHIGAN. THAT AND THE DESTABILIZED BOUNDARY LAYER OVER THE WARM

LAKE WILL ALLOW FOR WAVES TO VERY LIKELY REACH 20 FT ALREADY BY

TUE MORNING ALONG THE INDIANA AND SOUTHEAST COOK COUNTY IL SHORES.

LAKESHORE FLOODING IS LIKELY WITH SUCH WAVES AND PERSISTENCE

/20 FT PLUS WAVES THROUGH AT LEAST WEDNESDAY MORNING/...SO A

LAKESHORE FLOOD WARNING HAS BEEN ISSUED. THE EFFECTS OF THIS WILL

BE GREATEST IN NORTHWEST IN...BUT SUCH AS THE SEPTEMBER 30 2011

RECORD WAVE EVENT OVER SOUTHERN LAKE MI...SOME IMPACTS ARE LIKELY

IN COOK COUNTY INCLUDING CHICAGO.

NORTHERLY WINDS WILL CONTINUE TO STEADILY INCREASE ON MONDAY AND

MONDAY NIGHT ACROSS THE LAKE AND NORTHEAST IL AND NORTHWEST

IN...AND ARE FAVORED TO REACH THEIR MAXIMA DURING THE DAY

TUESDAY. THE TYPE OF SPEEDS REACHED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LAKE

SHOULD BE EXPERIENCED ALL THE WAY TO THE IN SHORE GIVEN THE

FRICTIONLESS FETCH...AND AT THIS TIME THIS IS LIKELY TO INCLUDE

GUSTS OF 50 TO 65 MPH. WORKING INLAND THESE WILL TAPER

QUICKLY...BUT GUSTS IN EXCESS OF 40 MPH ARE LIKELY TO EXTEND

INLAND THROUGH NORTHWEST INDIANA AN ADDITIONAL TIER OR TWO OF

COUNTIES. AT THIS TIME...A HIGH WIND WATCH HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR THE

LAKESHORE COUNTIES EXPERIENCING THE ONSHORE FLOW. AS THE CENTER OF

CIRCULATION FILLS MORE RAPIDLY BY WEDNESDAY AND PRESSURE FALLS

CEASE ACROSS THE WESTERN LAKES...THE WINDS WILL DIMINISH BUT HIGH

WAVES WILL CONTINUE.

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I would suspect LOT will hoist advisories pretty soon as well.

Lake Michigan waves should reach 20 feet by Tuesday morning!

Additionally...

...GALES EXPECTED FROM MONDAY AFTERNOON THROUGH WEDNESDAY EVENING

WITH STORM FORCE WINDS LIKELY FOR THE SOUTHERN PORTIONS OF THE

LAKE EARLY TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH TUESDAY AFTERNOON...

A RIDGE OF HIGH PRESSURE EXTENDS FROM THE TEXAS GULF COAST NORTH

TO HUDSON BAY. FARTHER TO THE EAST...HURRICANE SANDY IS SPINNING

OFF THE NORTH CAROLINA COAST. THIS PUTS LAKE MICHIGAN IN A SQUEEZE

PLAY BETWEEN STRONG HIGH PRESSURE TO THE WEST AND A STRONG

HURRICANE TO THE EAST. THE RIDGE OF HIGH PRESSURE WILL REMAIN

NEARLY STATIONARY WHILE THE HURRICANE MOVES NORTHWARD. SANDY IS

FORECAST TO TURN WESTWARD INTO SOUTHERN NEW JERSEY BY MONDAY

EVENING. A STRONG NORTHERLY GRADIENT IS IN PLACE OVER THE LAKE

WITH 30 KT WINDS ALREADY OBSERVED OVER THE SOUTHERN PORTIONS OF

THE LAKE. THE GRADIENT WILL STEADILY INCREASE AS THE HURRICANE

TRACK NORTHWARD AND THEN WESTWARD...WITH NORTH GALES DEVELOPING BY

MONDAY AFTERNOON. GALES WILL STEADILY INCREASE OVER ALL OF THE

LAKE THROUGH MONDAY NIGHT. THE GRADIENT WILL BE STRONGEST OVER THE

SOUTHERN PORTIONS OF THE LAKE...WITH STORM FORCE WINDS DEVELOPING

DURING THE LATE NIGHT HOURS. WHILE THE NORTHERN PORTIONS OF THE

SHOULD SEE A SLIGHTLY WEAKER GRADIENT...THERE IS STILL A CHANCE

FOR A FEW STORM FORCE GUSTS...BUT AT THIS POINT...THE STRONGEST

WINDS ARE EXPECTED FOR THE SOUTHERN PORTIONS OF THE LAKE. THE

EXTENDED NORTHERLY FETCH WILL DRIVE WAVES AS HIGH AS 25 FEET

CRASHING INTO THE NORTHERN INDIANA SHORELINE...WITH WAVES OVER 30

FEET POSSIBLE. WAVES OVER THE ILLINOIS SHORE WILL BE SLIGHTLY

LOWER...BUT WILL STILL BE UP TO 20 FEET...WITH OCCASIONALLY HIGHER

WAVES POSSIBLE. THE REMNANTS OF HURRICANE SANDY WILL FINALLY MOVE

OFF TO THE NORTHEAST BY WEDNESDAY NIGHT...ALLOWING WINDS TO

SUBSIDE BELOW GALE FORCE. WAVES OVER THE SOUTHERN PORTIONS OF THE

LAKE SHOULD BE SLOW TO DAMPEN OUT AFTER THE EXTENDED STRONG NORTH

FETCH...SO AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY CRITERIA

WAVES ARE LIKELY...EVEN AFTER THE WINDS SUBSIDE BELOW ADVISORY

CRITERIA LEVELS.

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Part of the Afternoon (3:36pm EDT) Area Forecast Discussion from the National Weather Service in Cleveland...

.SHORT TERM /6 AM MONDAY MORNING THROUGH WEDNESDAY NIGHT/...

UNFORTUNATELY REMNANTS OF SANDY...ENHANCED BY UPPER DYNAMICS WILL

RETROGRADE BACK INTO WESTERN PA BY TUE AND STALL BEFORE SLOWLY

LIFTING NORTH STARTING WED INTO WED NIGHT.

CONDITIONS CONTINUE TO DETERIORATE MON AS PRESSURE GRADIENT TIGHTENS

CAUSING STRONGEST WINDS TO BEGIN TO OCCUR. WILL GO AHEAD WITH HIGH

WIND WARNING AND LAKESHORE FLOOD WARNING HEADLINES NOW THAT WILL

OFFICIALLY START AT 16Z MON. WINDS OF 30 TO 40 MPH WITH GUSTS OF 55

TO 60 MPH SEEM LIKELY TO OCCUR FOR MUCH OF THE AREA. BASED ON

STRONGER WINDS IN THE MODELS OVER THE WESTERN PART OF THE AREA HAVE

ALSO ADDED THESE CO`S TO THE WARNING. WILL ALSO EXTEND WIND WARNING

UNTIL 20Z TUE TO GIVE EXTRA TIME FOR WINDS TO BEGIN TO DIMINISH SOME.

THE LOW STARTS TO WEAKEN SOME BY TUE EVE AND CONTINUES TO WEAKEN WED

AND WED NIGHT WHILE LIFTING NORTH. ENDING OF WIND HEADLINES FOR TUE

EVENING MAY WORK OUT BUT LAKESHORE COULD STILL NEED WIND ADVISORY AS

WINDS TURN MORE WEST TUE NIGHT INTO WED.

DEEPER MOISTURE AND RAIN SHIELD CONTINUES TO COVER ALL OF AREA INTO

WED NIGHT SO WILL KEEP POPS IN CATEGORICAL TO LIKELY RANGE THRU WED

WITH FAR WEST AND SW BACKING TO HIGH CHANCE FOR WED NIGHT.

TEMPS WON`T SHOW MUCH FLUCTUATION THROUGH WED NIGHT AS CLOUDS AND

RAIN DOMINATE. PATCHES OF MIXED WET SNOW STILL NOT OUT OF THE

QUESTION DURING THE DIURNAL COLDEST TIME MON NIGHT INTO EARLY TUE

FOR THE SW HALF.

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Storm Warnings have now been issued for Lake Michigan! Gale warnings along the shore now.

...GALE WARNING NOW IN EFFECT FROM 1 PM MONDAY TO 4 AM CDT

TUESDAY...

...STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM TO 4 PM CDT TUESDAY...

...GALE WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 4 PM TUESDAY TO 9 PM CDT

WEDNESDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN CHICAGO HAS ISSUED A STORM

WARNING...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM TO 4 PM CDT TUESDAY. A

GALE WARNING HAS ALSO BEEN ISSUED. THIS GALE WARNING IS IN EFFECT

FROM 4 PM TUESDAY TO 9 PM CDT WEDNESDAY. THE STORM WATCH IS NO

LONGER IN EFFECT.

* WINDS...NORTH GALES TO 35 KT STARTING MONDAY AFTERNOON

INCREASING TO 50 KT STORM FORCE WINDS LATE MONDAY NIGHT THROUGH

LATE TUESDAY AFTERNOON. GALES WILL THEN CONTINUE THROUGH

WEDNESDAY EVENING.

* SIGNIFICANT WAVES...12 TO 16 FT MONDAY AFTERNOON BUILDING TO 20

TO 25 FT TUESDAY MORNING...THEN SUBSIDING TO 12 TO 16 FT LATE

WEDNESDAY NIGHT.

* OCCASIONAL WAVES...TO 20 FT MONDAY AFTERNOON...BUILDING TO 33 FT

TUESDAY MORNING...THEN SUBSIDING TO 28 FT WEDNESDAY NIGHT.

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