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Sunday - January 8, 2012 - What storm Discussion


Baroclinic Zone

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We just can't catch a break. Time to move on to February?

It's pretty obvious no system is ever going to phase this year in the right spot for a snow producing coastal storm. This could have gone two ways ..phase west and cutter, or as appears likely - the northern stream dominates and thus unphased and out to sea.

Because the Euro had it I took it seriously. But this is the second time the Euro has teased like this around day 5. It's losing it's credibility...won't believe it next time.

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You have to figure there's some precip around Sunday/Sunday night.. Whether it's nuisance stuff or more of a storm..there should be something . Let the data get sampled correctly before ruling anything out

Maybe, but as we talked about yesterday...the chances of nothing even materializing were there too. I really would not expect anything right now.

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You have to figure there's some precip around Sunday/Sunday night.. Whether it's nuisance stuff or more of a storm..there should be something . Let the data get sampled correctly before ruling anything out

thank you Tip.

Seriously....we have a shortwave moving to our se in 4-5 days. It might be nothing but it is probably not phased west and warm. This is on several models. It might trend stronger as it gets closer....That's all we have right now. The Euro had a good storm yesterday and that could come back.

Here is HPC overnight. This is getting to be a better and better read. Baby steps:

PRELIMINARY EXTENDED FORECAST DISCUSSION

NWS HYDROMETEOROLOGICAL PREDICTION CENTER CAMP SPRINGS MD

359 AM EST WED JAN 04 2012

VALID 12Z SUN JAN 08 2012 - 12Z WED JAN 11 2012

THE MEDIUM RANGE FCST PRESENTS A NUMBER OF UNCERTAINTIES OVER THE

COURSE OF THE PERIOD. ONE POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT OVER THE PAST DAY

IS A MODERATE REDUCTION IN SPREAD WITH RESPECT TO THE ULTIMATE

EVOLUTION OF ENERGY EXPECTED TO AMPLIFY INTO THE SWRN STATES BY

DAY 4 SUN. AT THE MOMENT THE 00Z GEFS/12Z ECMWF ENSEMBLE MEANS

PROVIDE GREATER SUPPORT FOR THE 00Z ECMWF/UKMET THAT HOLD THE MID

LVL SYSTEM FARTHER WWD THAN THE GFS/CANADIAN... SO PREFERENCE WILL

LEAN TO THE SLOWER CLUSTER ALBEIT WITH AT MOST MODERATE CONFIDENCE

DUE TO PRIOR MODEL/ENSEMBLE SPREAD AND RUN TO RUN INCONSISTENCY IN

MOST MODELS. BY DAYS 5-7 MON-WED DETAIL SPREAD INCREASES FAIRLY

RAPIDLY ACROSS THE PAC INTO NOAM AS GUIDANCE SUGGESTS A SPLIT IN

ERN PAC FLOW. COMPARED TO OTHER GUIDANCE THE CANADIAN IS A

PRONOUNCED OUTLIER WITH ITS CLOSED LOW THAT TRACKS ALONG THE CA

COAST BY TUE. BY THE D+8 TIME FRAME TELECONNECTIONS RELATIVE TO

THE CORE OF POSITIVE HGT ANOMALIES ACROSS THE NRN ATLC FAVOR AN

EVOLUTION THAT BRINGS A MEAN TROF TOWARD THE EAST COAST. THE 00Z

GEFS MEAN AND PAST TWO ECMWF RUNS ALONG WITH THE BROADER 12Z ECMWF

MEAN LEAD INTO THIS FAVORED CONFIGURATION MORE EASILY THAN THE 00Z

GFS THAT HAS GREATER WWD ELONGATION OF THE CONUS TROF BY DAY 7

WED... SO PREFERENCE WILL GO TO THE MAJORITY CLUSTER WITH THIS

PART OF THE FCST.

MEANWHILE A SERIES OF NRN STREAM SHRTWVS CROSSING THE ERN HALF OF

THE CONUS IS FCST TO SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT OF A COUPLE WRN ATLC

SYSTEMS... ONE DURING SUN-SUN NIGHT AND ANOTHER AROUND TUE. WITH

THE FIRST SYSTEM LATEST CONSENSUS IS EWD OF THE 12Z ECMWF/ECMWF

MEAN THOUGH THE 00Z GFS APPEARS TOO FAST WITH ITS SUPPORTING

SHRTWV ALOFT. A COMPROMISE CLOSER TO THE 00Z ECMWF/UKMET/CMC

PROVIDES THE BEST INTERMEDIATE SOLN AT THIS TIME. THERE IS

ACTUALLY SOMEWHAT BETTER CLUSTERING AMONG THE GFS/ECMWF/GEFS MEAN

WITH THE SECOND WRN ATLC LOW... AGAIN MORE OFFSHORE THAN THE 12Z

ECMWF MEAN. IN THIS CASE THE OPERATIONAL 12Z ECMWF WAS A MEMBER

OF THE CURRENT MAJORITY. BOTH SYSTEMS STILL HAVE POTENTIAL FOR

MEANINGFUL CHANGE IN TRACK GIVEN UNCERTAINTIES IN IMPORTANT SHRTWV

DETAILS.

THE DAYS 3-5 SAT-MON FCST STARTS WITH A NEARLY EVEN BLEND OF THE

00Z ECMWF/UKMET AND 12Z ECMWF MEAN TO REFLECT THE MOST AGREEABLE

ASPECTS OF SHORT RANGE GUIDANCE ACROSS THE CONUS/SRN CANADA AS OF

DAY 3 AND WITH WRN ATLC EVOLUTION. DAYS 6-7 TUE-WED USE A BLEND

OF 00Z ECMWF/00Z GEFS MEAN AND 12Z ECMWF MEAN AS TELECONNECTIONS

AND CONTINUITY FAVOR AN ERN CONUS MEAN TROF BY THE END OF THE

PERIOD OR SHORTLY THEREAFTER.

RAUSCH

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I'll weenie out with Mark on this one. I've seen definitives tossed out by some ... I'm thinking there still is a chance. If there is still nothing by 00z tonight I'll move on to the next one.

I don't think I'm weenie-ing out. I did that a couple weeks ago and then had to put my weenie away. I think I have a realistic view on this, a viewpoint that is appropriate in these trying times where the level of cynicism is growing. I see myself as a leader, a role model for stepping above the fray. Thank you for joining me. Together we will create a more positive sub forum. It's morning for the winter!

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GFS schooling the euro in the medium range...

The king is no longer the king in patterns like this

That is not true.

However the Euro has had a few ultra amped storms depicted around day 5-7 that have completely dissapeared (fantasy storms as Scooter called them), and the GFS was indeed first to sniff them out. I believe the euro bias of holding energy back in the sw is coming into play.

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